Buck Rogers

Armyguy...Gone flying is spot on if you are hiring on to Delta as a stepping stone. We are substandard and new hire bases are less than desirable( but aren't they at every airline for new hires?). I think he misses the mark with his negativity if you are gonna be at Delta for a longish career....say maybe 5 years or longer. A coupla or 3 thousand dollars for the first month is chump change depending on your perspective. There are a whole host of pluses and minuses for every carrier. I would focus on your time horizon( which you didn't provide) so anything "newhire" depends on your time horizon perspective.

If you can find any carrier that has the bestest and mostest in every section, I'd go there....otherwise there are tradeoffs. Long term commuting is the most onerous part of the job. Pay is secondary....all the other stuff kinda evens out.

Pay during trainig doesn't even rise to a measurable metric . It is insignificant as are uniform pay/ allowances.

JMHO

LJ JE

How often do AE, vacancy bids occur?

gloopy

I'm one of the bigest pro NH advocates there is and I agree with you on that as a point of order. And I don't blame the company at all. In fact, they are going above and beyond to do the right thing WRT NH lodging and I commend them for that.

I blame ourselves, as once they show up they are under our contract. I don't think its too much to ask to negotiate for at least what UAL has in that area. How many NH pilots are in training at any given time? Split the savings between their training pay difference, hotels (moo point ATM) and unis across 12,000+ other pilots and the cost argument goes out the window even if we assume its a zero sum game. I've never been glad for my 1/12,000th share of that and I never will be.

That said, I don't see too many pilots refusing the job because of it. It might be a tie breaker for someone with multipile offers but its not a show stopper. However fixing that area of the contract is just the right thing to do IMO.

Gone Flying

wasn’t trying to be negative, but a couple things,

1) I got stuck on NH pay for almost a year, I think that is a possibility worth planning for.

2) army guy is a Current AA pilot off probation and in his early 50s. He would be giving up at least a couple years at a legacy to start over here. I am not trying to be overly negative but I’m also not gonna sugar coat how things are here.

Buck Rogers

Like I said...lots of variables. UAL doesn't get profit sharing for the year you hire on. If you hire in Jan it could be 11+ months that you work and don't earn profit sharing. 2 years ago, that was a big deal. Now, not so much....but in the future it will be again. Like I said....no carrier has the bestest in every section. Balance and perspective are the operative words.

And, yes, I am for improvements in all sections, including new hire improvements.

Armyguy

I appreciate the information, I did not see it as being negative at all. It is going to be roughly a 100K hit the first year which isnt something to overlook lightly considering my time horizon. Thanks

Gone Flying

and AA year longevity is the day you finish training not day 1 of indoc and they do not get 401k on year 1 unless you are a flow through (which is why I included it in day 1 benefits, because that is not universal at all places) . If you are in your 30s or early 40s at a regional or separating from the military it is a blip on the radar. If you are in your 50s and looking at jumping ship from another major, I think it is a bigger consideration and worth mentioning.

for me, it would be something I would want to know before I leave a job at a legacy to start over.

appreciate your insight buck and not trying to be overly negative, but I was hired under the guise of “ you will make up for any new hire pay shortcomings with PS and green slips”…then Covid happend and I was making $1,500-$2,000/month less than others at UA. I knew what I was signing up for (kinda) I just want to make sure that info is visible to others looking to make a decision.

Gone Flying

hope I could help. Hopefully you get the call soon, hiring is just starting to ramp up here so keep an eye out.
Cheers!

Der Meister

Except for that lack of profit sharing which puts us below industry standard for pay.... So I will say once again for those on the back of the room; profit sharing isn't pay! Unless you can guarantee it every year we shouldn't count it in out pay calculations. Why we ever have is beyond me, as its seems the most short sighted view ever.

FangsF15

Pretty consistently 4-5 Per year.

One AE annually is allowed to be a 365-day conversion window (and then, only if there is a displacement, which they always seem to be able to muster). The rest are 210 day conversion windows.

Crew Resources keeps saying they want to have more frequent/smaller AE's, but they never seem to be able to do it. Many suspect the guy who runs that shop is a good dude, but is hamstrung by higher management, and is constantly riding the end of a whip. We also consider this to be a weak spot in our contract, allowing the company too much leeway on frequency, conversion timing, and vacation planning ability.

Good Luck