Reserve for Dummies
11-13-2024 | 09:45 AM
#2211
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,359
Likes: 845
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
As it was always intended to be late there is no issue. This IS the way to do it. Once you are contactable at the 2 hour point they will call and inform you of the trip. You then go to the gate. This is similar to the response time of the 6 hour airport recovery sit.
11-13-2024 | 09:55 AM
#2212
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,359
Likes: 845
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
Correct. And if you are coming off a non-fly day on your first day of LC and they give you a SC that starts between 10 and 18 hours after the start of LC then you don't need a backup flight and your primary flight can come in during that window.
Basically, the non-contactable clause assumes that you are not contactable because you are in an airplane headed to your base during the first two hours. So say you've got 1200 SC, and scheduling wants to call you at 1200 to notify you of a 1415 report. But you are non-contactable because your flight is in the air arriving at 1345. In that instance, when you land, you check your schedule and see the 1415 report, then you are exptect to make that report time because you are basically waiving your SC callout time in lieu of commuting in during part of it. What you can't do is be non-contactable, land at 1345, check your schedule and see the assignment, then say it will take you 2+ hours from that point to report. If, however, you land at 1345 and check your schedule and nothing is on there, then at 1346 scheduling calls to add a 1415 report, you are back on the "promptly available" leash and are not expected to immediately make that report time. In that situation, it is up to each pilot to determine when they will be able to report even though they are at the airport. Maybe it was an early morning flight and they want a nap before starting duty, or need to grab a meal or something. Or if they're ready to roll they can just report on time well less than 2 hours from scheduling notification.
Now there is nothing in the PWA or SRH that prohibits a pilot who lives in base from utilizing the non-contactable clause either even though the intent is for commuters. As I posted above in-base pilots can use it to try to avoid being assigned rotations that report within the first 2 hours of their SC window.
Basically, the non-contactable clause assumes that you are not contactable because you are in an airplane headed to your base during the first two hours. So say you've got 1200 SC, and scheduling wants to call you at 1200 to notify you of a 1415 report. But you are non-contactable because your flight is in the air arriving at 1345. In that instance, when you land, you check your schedule and see the 1415 report, then you are exptect to make that report time because you are basically waiving your SC callout time in lieu of commuting in during part of it. What you can't do is be non-contactable, land at 1345, check your schedule and see the assignment, then say it will take you 2+ hours from that point to report. If, however, you land at 1345 and check your schedule and nothing is on there, then at 1346 scheduling calls to add a 1415 report, you are back on the "promptly available" leash and are not expected to immediately make that report time. In that situation, it is up to each pilot to determine when they will be able to report even though they are at the airport. Maybe it was an early morning flight and they want a nap before starting duty, or need to grab a meal or something. Or if they're ready to roll they can just report on time well less than 2 hours from scheduling notification.
Now there is nothing in the PWA or SRH that prohibits a pilot who lives in base from utilizing the non-contactable clause either even though the intent is for commuters. As I posted above in-base pilots can use it to try to avoid being assigned rotations that report within the first 2 hours of their SC window.
11-13-2024 | 10:15 AM
#2213
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 527
Likes: 26
From: 320
Correct. And if you are coming off a non-fly day on your first day of LC and they give you a SC that starts between 10 and 18 hours after the start of LC then you don't need a backup flight and your primary flight can come in during that window.
Basically, the non-contactable clause assumes that you are not contactable because you are in an airplane headed to your base during the first two hours. So say you've got 1200 SC, and scheduling wants to call you at 1200 to notify you of a 1415 report. But you are non-contactable because your flight is in the air arriving at 1345. In that instance, when you land, you check your schedule and see the 1415 report, then you are exptect to make that report time because you are basically waiving your SC callout time in lieu of commuting in during part of it. What you can't do is be non-contactable, land at 1345, check your schedule and see the assignment, then say it will take you 2+ hours from that point to report. If, however, you land at 1345 and check your schedule and nothing is on there, then at 1346 scheduling calls to add a 1415 report, you are back on the "promptly available" leash and are not expected to immediately make that report time. In that situation, it is up to each pilot to determine when they will be able to report even though they are at the airport. Maybe it was an early morning flight and they want a nap before starting duty, or need to grab a meal or something. Or if they're ready to roll they can just report on time well less than 2 hours from scheduling notification.
Now there is nothing in the PWA or SRH that prohibits a pilot who lives in base from utilizing the non-contactable clause either even though the intent is for commuters. As I posted above in-base pilots can use it to try to avoid being assigned rotations that report within the first 2 hours of their SC window.
Basically, the non-contactable clause assumes that you are not contactable because you are in an airplane headed to your base during the first two hours. So say you've got 1200 SC, and scheduling wants to call you at 1200 to notify you of a 1415 report. But you are non-contactable because your flight is in the air arriving at 1345. In that instance, when you land, you check your schedule and see the 1415 report, then you are exptect to make that report time because you are basically waiving your SC callout time in lieu of commuting in during part of it. What you can't do is be non-contactable, land at 1345, check your schedule and see the assignment, then say it will take you 2+ hours from that point to report. If, however, you land at 1345 and check your schedule and nothing is on there, then at 1346 scheduling calls to add a 1415 report, you are back on the "promptly available" leash and are not expected to immediately make that report time. In that situation, it is up to each pilot to determine when they will be able to report even though they are at the airport. Maybe it was an early morning flight and they want a nap before starting duty, or need to grab a meal or something. Or if they're ready to roll they can just report on time well less than 2 hours from scheduling notification.
Now there is nothing in the PWA or SRH that prohibits a pilot who lives in base from utilizing the non-contactable clause either even though the intent is for commuters. As I posted above in-base pilots can use it to try to avoid being assigned rotations that report within the first 2 hours of their SC window.
11-13-2024 | 10:20 AM
#2214
Roll’n Thunder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,174
Likes: 584
From: Pilot
Thanks. The calling to indicate non-contactable the first 2 hours, only works if they haven't already pre-populated a trip in the first two hours on your sched already? (Example, the OP a few pages back, 2pm SC, before SC starts they see this 1430 report on there. The pilot calling at 2pm to indicate non-contact the first two doesn't work in that scenario because CS is just going to inform you of the 1430 report and to do your best?)
But in your example, no, if you wait until they've already got a sub-2 hour report on your SC period, you can't then call and tell them you'll be non-contactable as a play to drop the assignment.
11-13-2024 | 10:22 AM
#2215
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,359
Likes: 845
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
Thanks. The calling to indicate non-contactable the first 2 hours, only works if they haven't already pre-populated a trip in the first two hours on your sched already? (Example, the OP a few pages back, 2pm SC, before SC starts they see this 1430 report on there. The pilot calling at 2pm to indicate non-contact the first two doesn't work in that scenario because CS is just going to inform you of the 1430 report and to do your best?)
11-13-2024 | 10:46 AM
#2216
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 210
Correct. And if you are coming off a non-fly day on your first day of LC and they give you a SC that starts between 10 and 18 hours after the start of LC then you don't need a backup flight and your primary flight can come in during that window.
Basically, the non-contactable clause assumes that you are not contactable because you are in an airplane headed to your base during the first two hours. So say you've got 1200 SC, and scheduling wants to call you at 1200 to notify you of a 1415 report. But you are non-contactable because your flight is in the air arriving at 1345. In that instance, when you land, you check your schedule and see the 1415 report, then you are exptect to make that report time because you are basically waiving your SC callout time in lieu of commuting in during part of it. What you can't do is be non-contactable, land at 1345, check your schedule and see the assignment, then say it will take you 2+ hours from that point to report. If, however, you land at 1345 and check your schedule and nothing is on there, then at 1346 scheduling calls to add a 1415 report, you are back on the "promptly available" leash and are not expected to immediately make that report time. In that situation, it is up to each pilot to determine when they will be able to report even though they are at the airport. Maybe it was an early morning flight and they want a nap before starting duty, or need to grab a meal or something. Or if they're ready to roll they can just report on time well less than 2 hours from scheduling notification.
Now there is nothing in the PWA or SRH that prohibits a pilot who lives in base from utilizing the non-contactable clause either even though the intent is for commuters. As I posted above in-base pilots can use it to try to avoid being assigned rotations that report within the first 2 hours of their SC window.
Basically, the non-contactable clause assumes that you are not contactable because you are in an airplane headed to your base during the first two hours. So say you've got 1200 SC, and scheduling wants to call you at 1200 to notify you of a 1415 report. But you are non-contactable because your flight is in the air arriving at 1345. In that instance, when you land, you check your schedule and see the 1415 report, then you are exptect to make that report time because you are basically waiving your SC callout time in lieu of commuting in during part of it. What you can't do is be non-contactable, land at 1345, check your schedule and see the assignment, then say it will take you 2+ hours from that point to report. If, however, you land at 1345 and check your schedule and nothing is on there, then at 1346 scheduling calls to add a 1415 report, you are back on the "promptly available" leash and are not expected to immediately make that report time. In that situation, it is up to each pilot to determine when they will be able to report even though they are at the airport. Maybe it was an early morning flight and they want a nap before starting duty, or need to grab a meal or something. Or if they're ready to roll they can just report on time well less than 2 hours from scheduling notification.
Now there is nothing in the PWA or SRH that prohibits a pilot who lives in base from utilizing the non-contactable clause either even though the intent is for commuters. As I posted above in-base pilots can use it to try to avoid being assigned rotations that report within the first 2 hours of their SC window.
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.
11-13-2024 | 10:50 AM
#2217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,547
Likes: 1,155
Either way, they aren't supposed to assign anything in that two for window.
11-13-2024 | 10:50 AM
#2218
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 513
Likes: 99
I think this is where the "immediately check your schedule at the start of your SC to go back to the 'promptly available' callout" method comes in. Which I had never thought to do, but will definitely be employing going forward.
11-13-2024 | 12:01 PM
#2219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 4,026
Likes: 217
From: Looking left
If Scheds is assgined rotations that report during the first two hours (and the pilot has notified them they will be non-contactable) it is a PWA violation.
11-13-2024 | 12:33 PM
#2220
.
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,529
Likes: 697
Then add in the "whatever airport you flew into, they want the furthest one"
Christmas week 2018. Bad weather in NYC. I'm assigned 1400-0100 SC. I'm sitting in my crash pad that's a 15 minute walk to jfk airtrain.
Snowing.
Call to EWR. I'm in a cab less than 15 minutes after call. (Throw on uniform, finish eating my pizza, call uber)
1 hour later. Still on belt parkway. Crew Skeds calls "you must be there in the next 30 minutes or else"
"or else what?"
"you're on probation"
"no I'm not"
(I was just under a year on property but flew over 400 block)
30 minutes later. Cs supervisor calls.
"where are you "
"verazanno narrows bridge. Traffic ain't moving fast"
"it's only 20 miles"
"Its rush hour and snowing. I could have walked to JFK in 15 minutes, but EWR is gonna,be at least another hour"
"how is this taking so long, you are required to be "promptly available ""
"To the nearest of the 3 airports. I could have walked all the way to the terminal if I need to"
"you need to be promptly available to all 3"
"put supervisor on"
"I am a supervisor"
"get your boss and the duty pilot on"
Get DP. Explain situation. Tell him I was call to in Uber less than 15 minutes from my crash pad in Ozone Park"
"that's more than reasonable. Add a note to CXs rotation that I'm authorizing full reimbursement for cab fare"
call ends. Dp calls
"sorry man, they do not understand that rush hour in NYC is like Atlanta when it snows. They're gonna GS the other 2 pilots as the 2 you are supposed to join will time out in 30 minutes and we both know that's not happening"
Christmas week 2018. Bad weather in NYC. I'm assigned 1400-0100 SC. I'm sitting in my crash pad that's a 15 minute walk to jfk airtrain.
Snowing.
Call to EWR. I'm in a cab less than 15 minutes after call. (Throw on uniform, finish eating my pizza, call uber)
1 hour later. Still on belt parkway. Crew Skeds calls "you must be there in the next 30 minutes or else"
"or else what?"
"you're on probation"
"no I'm not"
(I was just under a year on property but flew over 400 block)
30 minutes later. Cs supervisor calls.
"where are you "
"verazanno narrows bridge. Traffic ain't moving fast"
"it's only 20 miles"
"Its rush hour and snowing. I could have walked to JFK in 15 minutes, but EWR is gonna,be at least another hour"
"how is this taking so long, you are required to be "promptly available ""
"To the nearest of the 3 airports. I could have walked all the way to the terminal if I need to"
"you need to be promptly available to all 3"
"put supervisor on"
"I am a supervisor"
"get your boss and the duty pilot on"
Get DP. Explain situation. Tell him I was call to in Uber less than 15 minutes from my crash pad in Ozone Park"
"that's more than reasonable. Add a note to CXs rotation that I'm authorizing full reimbursement for cab fare"
call ends. Dp calls
"sorry man, they do not understand that rush hour in NYC is like Atlanta when it snows. They're gonna GS the other 2 pilots as the 2 you are supposed to join will time out in 30 minutes and we both know that's not happening"
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
