I can safely say Ive routinely disagreed with HK on almost everything he has said on this board………

this thought about VFR shouldn’t have even left the mouth, much less uttered to atc and dispatch

can anyone really justify leaving vfr into new york airspace when they just lost radar? I cant believe any rational 121 experienced pilot could possibly entertain this to the point where you actively pursue it with outside agencies

VERY unprofessional and an absolute display of poor airmanship. Id happily say this to the captains face and watch them struggle to justify it. If i was a check airman on the fleet, i would pursue a talking to the captain to understand the rationale in taking on this risk. If it was the go home leg even more so


to be clear: this is at face value assuming there was truly no radar coverage for 40 miles

 

You mean you were against me being against 67???

Yes EWR Tower informed the crew that radar not available until around Allentown. Or at least that is the earliest they could expect an IFR pickup. That's what I got from listening to it and other sources.

 

Only forced to depart VFR once in 3 decades of Part 121 flying.

Pre cell phone days, the RCO was broken, and the land lines were also down. It was in the middle of nowhere, so no conflicting traffic except for possible turkeys in the vicinity of the runway. Which make the runway look like a pillow factory exploded when ingested (personal experience). I digress.

I appreciate their thought process, but it wouldn't be for me.

------

Someone on the book thread recommended "Collision Course" about the ATC strike in the 1980s (I'm 1/2way through it..it's excellent).

It begins with a story about a midair collision between a United DC-8 and a TWA Constellation in Idlewild (JFK, EWR, LGA) back in 1960.

Due in no small part to antiquated ATC equipment and regular failures of it.

Now United is reducing flights from EWR by 10% and asking it's own passengers to pick up a United flight out of another airport.

History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme, as the saying goes.

 

Tough crowd. My mind has gone on flights of fancy before. Maybe after talking to clearance they looked at eachother and were like “actually this seems dumb.” And ended the idea on their own. The bottom line is they didn’t end up doing it.

A few times before takeoff FOs have reeled me in when I had a “good idea” in my head that they made me realize was a bad idea.


As an aside, it sucks for all of us that every offhand, casual conversation with ATC is plastered by plane sleuths on the internet for the peanut gallery to pick through without any context.

 

Knew about this "plan" on the OCC floor when the message came thru to dispatch and was elevated. It wasn't from live ATC. But I smell what you are cooking here.

 

I doubt they knew what the radar coverage situation looked like when they asked the question. Obviously having to get all the way to Allentown VFR is not a good plan.

 

Leroyyyyyyyyy

 

In defense of the crew It’s possible that the crew thought they might be getting a tower to tower clearance. We did that on the shuttle now and then. Delta certainly needs to take a hard look at operations especially at the regional level. The MEM to HSV divert recently is eye watering.

 

Ahhh-Jenkinnnnnnnnnnnnnsssss

 

That video was faked…