United AIP TA
05-28-2022 | 06:24 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,584
Likes: 239
From: UNA
day 1 9 hours (7.5 block, 1.5 DH)
day 2 7 hours
day 4 3 hrs
It currently pays the greater of 9+7+3 (19) or 5:15x 4 (21)
if we had a 4 hr min calendar day it would pay the greater of 9+7+4+4 ( 24) or 5:15x 4 (21)
if our min calendar day was too high it would just force more 3, 4, and 5 leg days. A balance can be struck were we are not forced into flying crazy amounts in a trip and still disincentivizing unproductive trips.
05-28-2022 | 07:04 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,021
Likes: 0
Our average block time per duty period is around 6:00. Our average schedule value for June is 85 hours. That's an average of 14 days of flying per flight attendant. So if you average out about 2.4 legs per duty period and you fly 14 days and use 1 duty period per day (even though it's actually less because transoceanic and domestic 30 hour layers have less duty periods than days) then you come up with an average of 33-34 legs per F/A per month. Take 33 legs and apply the 40 minutes of pay and you essentially end up with 11 hours of flight pay on top of the 85 block hours. So using this, you end up with 13% in additional pay but that number is inflated because 1/3 of all block hours are international that those trips have 2 duty periods per 3 day trip (or sometimes even 4 days) and therefore the average is actually lower than 33 legs per month. More like 26-28 legs per month. Then add in the other things I mentioned such as not having any impact on vacation and sick time...and that's how I got to 10% (or even less).
05-28-2022 | 07:37 PM
#124
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,588
Likes: 4
From: MD-88 FO
DALFA,
I have routinely enjoyed reading your perspective on matters related to the state of things at DAL… I hope that will continue.
but on this annual raise thing, I think you should take a step back and consider that the IFS cadre gets what it gets from the company to keep you competitive and happy.
Pilots don’t get “annual raises” they get what ALPA negotiated for them, typically nothing more, or less. The programmed raises just happened to be set for each January first.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I have routinely enjoyed reading your perspective on matters related to the state of things at DAL… I hope that will continue.
but on this annual raise thing, I think you should take a step back and consider that the IFS cadre gets what it gets from the company to keep you competitive and happy.
Pilots don’t get “annual raises” they get what ALPA negotiated for them, typically nothing more, or less. The programmed raises just happened to be set for each January first.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
05-28-2022 | 07:48 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 0
From: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
It is 40 minutes but you only get 50% of your flight hourly rate. So 22 hours of boarding pay equals 11 hours of flight pay. But like I said, the average is actually lower than 33 legs per month because in my 2.5 legs per day average I excluded international trips and 90%+ of those trips are 2 legs per 3/4 days depending on how long the layover is.
05-28-2022 | 07:49 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 0
From: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
Yes. This. Flight attendants will forever be satisfied with their yearly 4% goodwill raise. Any initial TA the pilots get might not come with 24% upfront, but if it doesn’t it will likely get sent back with a robust strike vote in tow. Any time i hear a flight attendant complain about work i simply ask them how they voted in the last union drive.
05-28-2022 | 08:34 PM
#127
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,379
Likes: 860
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
We've been through this before. You know most of the information is proprietary so there's that but this went public back in 2016. You are not correct.
Effective April 1, 2017, eligible ground and flight attendant employees in U.S. will receive a 6% base pay increase at all steps on all scales. The April 1, base pay increase will be the 10th increase since 2007, totaling over 64% at top of scale pay. At the start of this year (2016), Delta lifted the base pay of all hourly employees by 14.5 percent. And from another article dated 2/14/2018... According to Delta, total annual compensation at the airline has increased by 80% since 2008. This includes a 6% raise in base pay in 2017 and an 18.5% raise in 2015. They specifically explain pilots were excluded.
https://www.businessinsider.com/delt...-raise-2016-11
https://www.businessinsider.com/delt...g-bonus-2018-2
I also have all the "since bankruptcy" stuff the company published during the last union drive. Your percentage gains are well above the pilots and above industry peers and above inflation adjusted bankruptcy era scales. Not mention PPT, holiday pay and getting pilot profit sharing back.
Effective April 1, 2017, eligible ground and flight attendant employees in U.S. will receive a 6% base pay increase at all steps on all scales. The April 1, base pay increase will be the 10th increase since 2007, totaling over 64% at top of scale pay. At the start of this year (2016), Delta lifted the base pay of all hourly employees by 14.5 percent. And from another article dated 2/14/2018... According to Delta, total annual compensation at the airline has increased by 80% since 2008. This includes a 6% raise in base pay in 2017 and an 18.5% raise in 2015. They specifically explain pilots were excluded.
https://www.businessinsider.com/delt...-raise-2016-11
https://www.businessinsider.com/delt...g-bonus-2018-2
I also have all the "since bankruptcy" stuff the company published during the last union drive. Your percentage gains are well above the pilots and above industry peers and above inflation adjusted bankruptcy era scales. Not mention PPT, holiday pay and getting pilot profit sharing back.
Last edited by notEnuf; 05-28-2022 at 08:55 PM.
05-28-2022 | 08:40 PM
#128
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 72
That’s the hope. If it turns out to NOT be a home run wrt quality of life improvements( training and vaca pay, sick leave accrual, reserve rules etc) then there may well be a rebellion. This is supposed to be the contract that fixes all the BK leftover garbage. Time will tell
05-28-2022 | 09:02 PM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 0
From: I'm here, i'm there, i'm everywhere...
We've been through this before. You know most of the information is proprietary so there's that but this went public back in 2017. You are not correct.
Effective April 1, 2017, eligible ground and flight attendant employees in U.S. will receive a 6% base pay increase at all steps on all scales. The April 1, base pay increase will be the 10th increase since 2007, totaling over 64% at top of scale pay. At the start of this year (2016), Delta lifted the base pay of all hourly employees by 14.5 percent. And from another article dated 2/14/2018... According to Delta, total annual compensation at the airline has increased by 80% since 2008. This includes a 6% raise in base pay in 2017 and an 18.5% raise in 2015. They specifically explain pilots were excluded.
https://www.businessinsider.com/delt...-raise-2016-11
https://www.businessinsider.com/delt...g-bonus-2018-2
I also have all the "since bankruptcy" stuff the company published during the last union drive. Your percentage gains are well above the pilots and above industry peers and above inflation adjusted bankruptcy era scales. Not mention PPT, holiday pay and getting pilot profit sharing back.
Effective April 1, 2017, eligible ground and flight attendant employees in U.S. will receive a 6% base pay increase at all steps on all scales. The April 1, base pay increase will be the 10th increase since 2007, totaling over 64% at top of scale pay. At the start of this year (2016), Delta lifted the base pay of all hourly employees by 14.5 percent. And from another article dated 2/14/2018... According to Delta, total annual compensation at the airline has increased by 80% since 2008. This includes a 6% raise in base pay in 2017 and an 18.5% raise in 2015. They specifically explain pilots were excluded.
https://www.businessinsider.com/delt...-raise-2016-11
https://www.businessinsider.com/delt...g-bonus-2018-2
I also have all the "since bankruptcy" stuff the company published during the last union drive. Your percentage gains are well above the pilots and above industry peers and above inflation adjusted bankruptcy era scales. Not mention PPT, holiday pay and getting pilot profit sharing back.
The second statement about compensation rising by 80% "since 2008" in that article dated Feb of 2018 is also a lie. In 2008 top pay for flight attendants was $42.30 and when that article was published it was $64.96 per hour. So again, you can pull out the calculator and see that it's nowhere near the 80% they claim.
Lastly, compare pilot pay on 01/01/2007 to where it is now and then compare top hourly F/A pay on 01/01/2007 and compare it to what it is now. The pilot group has received more in increases as a percentage than the F/A group has.
Top F/A hourly pay on 01/01/2007 = $39.75
Top F/A hourly pay today = $72.38
That's an 82% increase.
Top Captain 777/A350 rate on 01/01/2007 = $188.31
Top Captain 777/A350 rate today = $353.85
That's an 88% increase.
If my numbers are wrong feel free to correct me.
Last edited by DALFA; 05-28-2022 at 09:14 PM.
05-28-2022 | 09:10 PM
#130
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 177
Yeah I remember Delta putting out that info and they were lying. There's no other way to put it. Top hourly pay for flight attendants on 01/01/2007 was $39.75 and on 04/01/2016 it was $61.28. They can say the total is 64% but if you have a calculator you can see that it isn't 64%. Not to mention that last 14.5% was due to the obliteration of our profit sharing for 2 years where I personally lost over $15,000 on that alone.
The second statement about compensation rising by 80% "since 2008" in that article dated Feb of 2018 is also a lie. In 2008 top pay for flight attendants was $42.30 and when that article was published it was $64.96 per hour. So again, you can pull out the calculator and see that it's nowhere near the 80% they claim.
The second statement about compensation rising by 80% "since 2008" in that article dated Feb of 2018 is also a lie. In 2008 top pay for flight attendants was $42.30 and when that article was published it was $64.96 per hour. So again, you can pull out the calculator and see that it's nowhere near the 80% they claim.
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