For the uninitiated like me, what actually happens with voting no on a TA? Why would that do anything effective? Can’t the company just say “sorry you voted no, too bad. Take it or leave it?” Can it potentially become worse when TA2 comes around?

WRT voting no can somebody explain the benefits and process? I’m uneasy about sending a 8/10 contract back to the table, in the hopes of a 10/10, when it just drags things out longer and the best possible was 8/10 anyway.

 

The average stage length for Delta is just under 1,100 miles. Basically the same distance as SEA-PHX. So if we take that as an example, the flight is blocked at roughly 2:50 on the way down and 3:10 on the way up. So an average of 3:00 block.

if we consider that on a 3:00 block a F/A will earn $72 x 3 = $216 flight pay and :40 x $36 = $24 in boarding pay…you’ll see that it’s an additional 11% in flight pay but because it doesn’t apply at all to suck time, vacation etc…it’s really 9-10% extra. Nowhere near the 16% that is being thrown around.

Also, the 4% receive in 2019 was an annual raise which pilots also received…you guys just received it a few months before everyone else. If you look at the schedule of annual raises you’ll see that what noncons received in 2019 wasn’t an “additional raise but rather just getting something pilots already received months prior.

So in reality for pilots to match what noncons have received since Covid hit you’re looking at 4% plus the 10% in boarding pay. So 14% total.

 

Completely inaccurate.

 

Let me point out some of your inaccuracies: you need to use median stage length not mean. And this whole chicken egg theory of yours on raises is wrong. If we say FAs got a raise after us in 2019 then they also got a raise before us 12 months before that. You would have to go back ad infinitum to figure who got a raise first. The facts are the FAs got two raises after the pilots. Additionally you don’t just add 4 + 4 + 16 = 24. You have to multiply 1.04 x 1.04 x 1.16 to get 1.255. So flight attendants got a 25.5 % raise since the pilots got their last raise. You may be right that it was not a 16% raise for boarding pay but your math errors suggests it is much more than 14% total.

 

Could you explain that?

Our 3 days trips are all 15:45. They should be a minimum of 18;00.

 

Just going to make a statement and not provide anything else?

 

Wait..how are these two thoughts related?

 

1. Why would you use the median stage length rather than the mean stage length?

2. We don’t have to go back infinitum. Just have to go back to Bankruptcy where both groups essentially had an extended period of time with no raises. Pilots have received more overall raises and also a large percentage overall since bankruptcy. I can make a complete list if you’d like. Also, this explanation of annual raises was also given in communications by the company. I specifically remember reading it a few years back.

3. 4% plus 10% = 14.4% compound

 

1: mean stage length is meaningless in this context because ultra long hall skews stage lengths way right. I don't even know that median is accurate but at least it would show you where the majority of FAs live in terms of trip construction. I think an even more accurate representation would be legs per day. If the average FA works 3 legs per day and 19 days a month, she gets an additional 19 hours per month divided by average credit per month. That'll give you the approximate raise percent.

 

I think I already explained your points 2 and 3. On point 1. You would use median because a stage length of LAX to SYD for one crew of flight attendants throws off the average when most flight attendants are doing 4 or 5 legs a a day on short flights. You are trying to capture what the average day is like not get an average for the number of miles flown. If you could tell me the average number of legs flown by a flight attendant in a day or a bid period then that would capture what boarding pay is really doing for flight attendants.