some got 717B reserve pay, others got NBCNEW pay. Starting in Dec 2020 everyone got 717B reserve pay

it would have been a good deal if it were not a prelude to getting furloughed and the only reason you were not was because it was illegal for them to do so.

another thing that stings was we were pretty much the only airline that would actually accept resignation letters written under duress. Almost every other airline didn’t actually remove you from the list if you were forced to resign to get another job…but Delta did.

Delta didn’t furlough because they couldn’t. The VEOP was responsible for an instantaneous 2 1/2 year bump in seniority though. The LOA opposition was for the wrong reasons. I thought we could have gotten more and the bluff of a furlough was obvious when the target date kept slipping and the numbers kept getting smaller.. Even if there was a furlough, looking at the staffing debacle it would have been very short lived. Delta would have put all of those new hires on other carriers lists effectively shooting themselves in the foot.

i don’t think 20-04 was perfect, I would have rather a deal that brought us all back and honored seniority a little more. but the reasons being peddled by some on FB to vote no seemed to be more to spite the UNAs than to fix the problems.

Personally, I think without the VEOP being as popular, we absolutely would have furloughed on 1 October.

From
FB,

“I will vote yes on a contract that does not include retro for retirees. I remember the sentiment in this group for demonstrating any willingness whatsoever to help those at the bottom of the seniority list 2 years ago. I will be reciprocating that amount of willingness to help those at the top (technically not even on) the seniority list now.”

The VEOP did by far the best benefit for everyone. The Oct. 1 date slid to November and then the vote in December. By January it was obvious UNAs were going to be training. It was a flawed LOA but I am glad we set a precedent of doing for our own (with .gov assistance) rather than just accept the furlough and cut people loose. For those who went through it in the early 2000s It sucked, and that is to be avoided if at all possible.

As far as one attention seeker on book face, WGAS. ;) He will spout his BS, the 2% rule applies here. The UNA haters are part of that same 2%.

If it was such a good deal, would you have traded places with them at the time? Or are you looking at it retrospectively?

The only reason we didn’t furlough was the gov cheese. Most UNAs didn’t benefit from anything in 20-04 when it was all said and done (furlough protection provisions at least). Having said that, 95% of UNAs don’t have that mentality.

Makes we wonder what the mentality of the ~26% who voted against 20-04 was…

Was a UNA. Deeply thankful to the pilot group for 20-04. Very grateful that things worked out the way they did.

There were still hours long walks I took to manage stress and figure out if unemployment would let me keep my mortgage or not. Working out how much of my 401k I'd have to liquidate if decent employment didn't come along during a furlough. Still had it far better than those who had to carry that stress *and* go through with it and I'll never forget that.

Solidly in favor of retro that includes retirees. As a poster above said, I'd gladly trade a smaller retro check to make sure it includes everyone who worked during the retro period. I've said as much to my reps and it'll be a major factor in my eventual boat.

Sticking together is the only way we can resist further degradation of our career and have a fighting chance of improving it.

As a UNA who went "7ERB Awarded 73NA " to "AE Cancelled" to UNA then went out on Mil Leave and came back technically to 7ERB then 320A, I am very appreciative for the 20-04 letter.
I am also VERY ****ed at the company for invoking max pain on the pilot group with the "What's a SIL" to MOAD before VEOP to my framed furlough letter.
If furloughs were gonna happen, they were gonna happen.. I figured that I was in one (if not the) highest paying seats (7ER) that any UNAs were holding and what they saved by throwing me UNA was the maximum amount they could have save (ER vs 717 pay rates) and that frankly didn't make sense but they did it to try to intimidate the pilot group. I know myself and a lot of UNAs were "full pay (rates) to the last day" in case they tried to jam some concessionary rates down our (all of us) throats to "save" the bottom from furlough.

Retro needs to be paid to those that have flown since the contract became amenable. 1 day or your retired the day before our new contract goes into effect. Anywhere in the middle.

To put it bluntly, full retro or GTFO. For all who flew, and if they have flown west for the final time, their heirs.

I do know the longer this drags the more the company is going to want to backload the retro (say 2/2/2/18) or something silly, or dangle a big honkin signing bonus. But no. Retro needs to hurt them for dragging this out. Considering we should have had a new contract in hand long before COVID or crazy inflation hit.

Retro for all who have flown under the expired contract. It is what is right.

Who was the only FO rep to vote against UNA FO's & 20-04? Hint: He's up for re-election right now. Tell your Seattle friends to pay attention.

Agreed. And frankly I am irritated and surprised at how willing some in this pilot group are to roll over and give the company a pass on retro. Anything less than full retro for all is an easy NO for me.