Originally Posted by TheProfessor

After reading the MEC Chairman’s letter this morning, I had a thought that I’m sure will end up drawing a lot of spears from the APC crowd.

As previously discussed here, the letter talks about how Flight Ops has tried to pin previous disruptions on us and have waged a sort of internal PR campaign to malign pilots as greedy/lazy/other negative adjectives.

I’ve seen plenty of people here say something to the effect of “since the company is treating us this way, you’re not going to see me hand out a single card or do anything that’s not mandated in 14CFR/PWA/etc…”

I think the letter presents a counter-narrative that talks about how we’ve “continued to lead” by taking care of people and doing some of those very small very simple extraneous things many pilots love to hate.

It seems like the obvious counter to this campaign to malign pilots is not to become even more grumpy and curmudgeony, but to use the ol “kill em with kindness” routine. And by that I mean continuing to do just basic stuff like saying goodbye, handing out cards, flight deck visits, etc...

Obviously I say this within the context of maintaining unity first and foremost (e.g. if hats off becomes a thing then hats are most certainly off). I know this isn’t a popularity contest, but I don’t see the benefit to feeding a flight ops narrative that we’re difficult people by doing things that some people will perceive as being difficult.

inb4 “you’re a management plant/4th floor intern/whatever”. I’m all for extracting maximum value from the leverage we presently have. I’m just suggesting the most effective strategy might be to continue presenting ourselves in the positive way that many people currently view us. The best place to sight your artillery is often from the moral high ground.

Accepting spears.

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

After reading the MEC Chairman’s letter this morning, I had a thought that I’m sure will end up drawing a lot of spears from the APC crowd.

As previously discussed here, the letter talks about how Flight Ops has tried to pin previous disruptions on us and have waged a sort of internal PR campaign to malign pilots as greedy/lazy/other negative adjectives.

I’ve seen plenty of people here say something to the effect of “since the company is treating us this way, you’re not going to see me hand out a single card or do anything that’s not mandated in 14CFR/PWA/etc…”

I think the letter presents a counter-narrative that talks about how we’ve “continued to lead” by taking care of people and doing some of those very small very simple extraneous things many pilots love to hate.

It seems like the obvious counter to this campaign to malign pilots is not to become even more grumpy and curmudgeony, but to use the ol “kill em with kindness” routine. And by that I mean continuing to do just basic stuff like saying goodbye, handing out cards, flight deck visits, etc...

Obviously I say this within the context of maintaining unity first and foremost (e.g. if hats off becomes a thing then hats are most certainly off). I know this isn’t a popularity contest, but I don’t see the benefit to feeding a flight ops narrative that we’re difficult people by doing things that some people will perceive as being difficult.

inb4 “you’re a management plant/4th floor intern/whatever”. I’m all for extracting maximum value from the leverage we presently have. I’m just suggesting the most effective strategy might be to continue presenting ourselves in the positive way that many people currently view us. The best place to sight your artillery is often from the moral high ground.

Accepting spears.

Originally Posted by tennisguru

I mean, where has "killing them with kindness" gotten us so far? For years we've done those extra things, and where is the goodwill from management in return? Fool me once (We ran a little hot), fool me twice (what's a SIL?), fool me three times (MOAB before VEOP), fool me four times (new improved pay promised for years), fool me five times (turning off the phones during crowdstrike), fool me six times (claiming that pay errors are rare), fool me seven times (claiming that CS hold times average ~3 minutes), fool me eight times (23m7/IA fiasco), fool me nine times (trying to unilaterally change how PB days are calcuated), fool me ten times (yanking ability to use PB days), fool me eleven times (critically short staff the airline then blame pilots for the implosion when we've been picking up record overtime).......

Need I go on? Maybe one day we'll have people in charge of FLOPS who understand and respect our contributions to the operation, both at a base level and when we go above and beyond. But with the current group in change we can be as kind as baby bunnies and all that will do is make it easier to turn us into rabbit stew...

Originally Posted by Trip7

Figuring out pay is not very difficult.

Originally Posted by Trip7

We are the highest paid airline pilots in the world. The company identified the Greenslip pay issue and paid it back promptly. Figuring out pay is not very difficult.

This woe is me attitude from folks making $300-500k+ to the point where you have to troll young GO workers is beneath Delta Pilots. You're better than this

Originally Posted by StoneQOLdCrazy

are you for real? these clowns make thousands of pay errors a month. In their own favor. They either can't figure it out, or realize how much they'll lose if they can't keep stealing our money and blaming "IT."

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

It seems like the obvious counter to this campaign to malign pilots is not to become even more grumpy and curmudgeony, but to use the ol “kill em with kindness” routine. And by that I mean continuing to do just basic stuff like saying goodbye, handing out cards, flight deck visits, etc...

Originally Posted by StoneQOLdCrazy

There are only a few ways we as pilots subjected to the RLA can legally voice our displeasure at the way management treats us.

"Killing them with kindness" gives them everything they want from us. Further, it then gives them the impression that they don't need to be in a hurry to negotiate a deal, since we're all pretending to be happy.

All the things we did legally to put pressure on them (i.e., being grumpy) is why when you got hired what, 18 months ago, you walked into a very nice contract.

"Killing them with kindness" when we're getting **** on is not a winning strategy. And it will show the company that treating us like crap is producing good results for them, and motivate them to continue to treat us like crap.

We need to negotiate from a position of strength and resolve at all times. Playing nice has never worked and will never work. Just the way it is.

Originally Posted by CBreezy

I think this is going to be a major sticking point and serious propaganda fodder for a small but vocal percent of the list that will see a substantial decrease in pay and an equal substantial increase in work. It doesn't matter what's in the contract for the farmers. We just have to make sure to fairly evaluate an agreement and not let people who would never agree to fix m7 in the first place drive the boat.

Originally Posted by GeneralLee

What has this current Mec done that would make you feel that this would be the path for something this important? Most pilots that I talk to are very content with C19. That is the reality of the situation. There is zero way this is an MOU.

I get the frustration, but I think it is misguided and should not be aimed at DALPA. Wait until we see something and then feel free to get out your pitchforks. I doubt that will be the case.