Notices

Openers today?

Old 05-02-2026 | 09:21 AM
  #851  
Viper25's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 304
Default

Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
It says exactly what I said it is. It's 2 simple words, not rocket science.
Didnt realize you were a legal scholar. Some “simple words” have a ton of nuance in legal circles. Another example is “implement” which our company takes liberties with. That said, no, your “not rocket science” take has a lot of nuance. In fact, all these “simple words” are in fact simple in their colloquial use, but anything but in their legal use. Here’s an explanation that barely only scratches the surface.

A past practice is not just something that has been done before; “past practice” has a specific legal definition. From a legal perspective, a past practice is related to collective bargaining matters and must be (1) long-standing, (2) uniformly applied, (3) uniformly understood by both faculty and their manager, and (4) consistent with the Agreement and state and federal laws. “Long-standing” is understood to be several years, not weeks, or months, or even one year. About three years is the generally accepted length of time for an otherwise qualified procedure to be considered a past practice. The more years a past practice is in place, the more established it becomes. Just as the Agreement is not a perfect document covering all considerations, the same is true of past practices. Thus, “uniformly applied” means the practice is used predominately within the scope of its application and there may be necessary exceptions. For example,faculty expertise or legitimate faculty or department needs might lead to variation in application of a scheduling practice.Such departures from “uniformly applied” would not disqualify the practice from being a past practice. “Uniformly understood” means both faculty and management recognize and acknowledge the practice. New faculty and new deans coming into a division and department can mean that a past practice is not known by all, so “uniformly understood”requires substantial, not absolute consensus. “Consistent with the
Agreement and state and federal laws” means past practices cannot conflict with the contract language or any state or federal laws that may apply. For example, a department cannot establish a past practice of having full-time faculty teach part of their load on the weekends because the Agreement states that the normal academic workweek is between Monday and Friday.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 09:35 AM
  #852  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 3,492
Likes: 990
Default

Originally Posted by Viper25
Didnt realize you were a legal scholar. Some “simple words” have a ton of nuance in legal circles. Another example is “implement” which our company takes liberties with. That said, no, your “not rocket science” take has a lot of nuance. In fact, all these “simple words” are in fact simple in their colloquial use, but anything but in their legal use. Here’s an explanation that barely only scratches the surface.

A past practice is not just something that has been done before; “past practice” has a specific legal definition. From a legal perspective, a past practice is related to collective bargaining matters and must be (1) long-standing, (2) uniformly applied, (3) uniformly understood by both faculty and their manager, and (4) consistent with the Agreement and state and federal laws. “Long-standing” is understood to be several years, not weeks, or months, or even one year. About three years is the generally accepted length of time for an otherwise qualified procedure to be considered a past practice. The more years a past practice is in place, the more established it becomes. Just as the Agreement is not a perfect document covering all considerations, the same is true of past practices. Thus, “uniformly applied” means the practice is used predominately within the scope of its application and there may be necessary exceptions. For example,faculty expertise or legitimate faculty or department needs might lead to variation in application of a scheduling practice.Such departures from “uniformly applied” would not disqualify the practice from being a past practice. “Uniformly understood” means both faculty and management recognize and acknowledge the practice. New faculty and new deans coming into a division and department can mean that a past practice is not known by all, so “uniformly understood”requires substantial, not absolute consensus. “Consistent with the
Agreement and state and federal laws” means past practices cannot conflict with the contract language or any state or federal laws that may apply. For example, a department cannot establish a past practice of having full-time faculty teach part of their load on the weekends because the Agreement states that the normal academic workweek is between Monday and Friday.
Not a legal scholar, just like the article you linked to wasn't written by one either. I've just been around the block a few times.

Past practice is simple constructionally.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 09:37 AM
  #853  
notEnuf's Avatar
Racketeer
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,320
Likes: 814
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
Default

Originally Posted by Viper25
Didnt realize you were a legal scholar. Some “simple words” have a ton of nuance in legal circles. Another example is “implement” which our company takes liberties with. That said, no, your “not rocket science” take has a lot of nuance. In fact, all these “simple words” are in fact simple in their colloquial use, but anything but in their legal use. Here’s an explanation that barely only scratches the surface.

A past practice is not just something that has been done before; “past practice” has a specific legal definition. From a legal perspective, a past practice is related to collective bargaining matters and must be (1) long-standing, (2) uniformly applied, (3) uniformly understood by both faculty and their manager, and (4) consistent with the Agreement and state and federal laws. “Long-standing” is understood to be several years, not weeks, or months, or even one year. About three years is the generally accepted length of time for an otherwise qualified procedure to be considered a past practice. The more years a past practice is in place, the more established it becomes. Just as the Agreement is not a perfect document covering all considerations, the same is true of past practices. Thus, “uniformly applied” means the practice is used predominately within the scope of its application and there may be necessary exceptions. For example,faculty expertise or legitimate faculty or department needs might lead to variation in application of a scheduling practice.Such departures from “uniformly applied” would not disqualify the practice from being a past practice. “Uniformly understood” means both faculty and management recognize and acknowledge the practice. New faculty and new deans coming into a division and department can mean that a past practice is not known by all, so “uniformly understood”requires substantial, not absolute consensus. “Consistent with the
Agreement and state and federal laws” means past practices cannot conflict with the contract language or any state or federal laws that may apply. For example, a department cannot establish a past practice of having full-time faculty teach part of their load on the weekends because the Agreement states that the normal academic workweek is between Monday and Friday.
But how is maple syrup made? Inquiring minds...

There's little to no chance we get anything. The best we can hope for is a "split the baby" decision. The latitude given to arbitrators is criminal IMHO.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 09:46 AM
  #854  
Viper25's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 304
Default

Originally Posted by notEnuf
But how is maple syrup made? Inquiring minds...

There's little to no chance we get anything. The best we can hope for is a "split the baby" decision. The latitude given to arbitrators is criminal IMHO.
Completely agree. We wouldn’t win this one.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 09:55 AM
  #855  
Line Holder
25M+ Airline Miles
20 Countries Visited
 
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 916
Likes: 293
Default

Originally Posted by C17man
180 and climbing. Just 97 more to beat Spirit today. What. Is. Happening?
Racketeering.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 10:20 AM
  #856  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 868
Likes: 266
Default

Originally Posted by C17man
180 and climbing. Just 97 more to beat Spirit today. What. Is. Happening?
lapping china eastern as well.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 10:44 AM
  #857  
Ripinpeace's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 456
Likes: 53
Default

Originally Posted by Xray678
this is a very good point. I laugh at all the guys on here who think we have leverage. We have a little leverage right now, while there is a chance to save our summer, How much leverage will we have after Delta drops to the bottom in reliability and we are making way less money than UAL. As someone said on FB a while back…the best leverage we have at the negotiating table is a financially healthy Delta. That is disappearing quickly. Let’s see what an arbitrator thinks of Auto Accept in two years.
The pilot group has immense leverage right now, both in timing and in scheduling ladder. Until a TA is reached (and likely after) we are each enjoying the movement of 2,000+ bodies being hired this year and indefinite 200% flying for all seniority levels; which is likely way to short of where we need to be with our work rules.

Completion factor is suffering by the way. The flights operating (95% of our flights) are leading the industry on on-time performance (vast majority of our passengers aren’t seeing anything wrong). There will be no negative impact to profit due to this CF issue. It’s a metric management clearly wants to correct asap, but to pretend it’s anything but leverage for pilots is hilarious.

In fact., will likely end the year with record revenue and since Delta is best positioned in this economic environment our profit gap will widen between DL and UA. United still has a two labor group contracts to go, SFO, ORD, and EWR are FAA constrained, they have no fortress hubs to control pricing power, and they have no ancillary revenue income via non-aircraft associated stream like MRO or refinery + their JV/CC revenue streams are much weaker. This is why they’re cutting more flying, slowing hiring, and ramping up the old jet retirements. Personally, very excited to see UA lose ground in Q2 and beyond when so many of you think differently.

This Summer will be a **** show guaranteed, but it will not meaningfully affect the bottom line. Delta is in by far the best position to weather this environment due to its revenue streams and disciplined growth past few years. Pilot group, again, has a ton of leverage with Delta’s economic health showing no signs of weakening. Meanwhile, UA labor groups continue to go without raises while Delta employees get a 5th raise in years before United groups get anything.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 10:59 AM
  #858  
DeltaboundRedux's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 2,941
Likes: 213
From: Enoch Powell Enthusiast
Default

“Past practice” and “racketeering” in the legal profession are what’s known as “terms of art.”

Terms of art aren’t limited to the legal profession.

“Squawk”, “deadhead”, “clean”, “dirty” are examples in the pilot profession that mean one thing to the general public but something completely different to a professional aviator.

Anytime I recognize a phrase as being a TOA in the legal world, I shrug my shoulders and wonder what it really means in its narrow context, because I’m not an attorney, and I doubt most here are either.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 11:58 AM
  #859  
Gunfighter's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
1M Airline Miles
On Reserve
Gets Weekends Off
50 Countries Visited
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,609
Likes: 623
Default

Delta can hire it's way out if the ongoing operational disaster with two people. Things aren't RyGHT at Delta.
Reply
Old 05-02-2026 | 12:03 PM
  #860  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 1,179
Default

Originally Posted by Gunfighter
Delta can hire it's way out if the ongoing operational disaster with two people. Things aren't RyGHT at Delta.
I would prefer to see the entire ship RyGHTEd.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
satpak77
Military
11
10-07-2011 02:53 PM
SrfNFly227
Regional
48
06-11-2009 09:02 PM
jungle
Money Talk
2
02-19-2009 07:50 PM
Longbow64
Flight Schools and Training
18
12-19-2007 05:15 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices