The TA prevents AF/KLM from hauling DL passengers during a DL strike? Really? Because under a release to self-help, management is generally not held to their contractual obligations. I can easily see a scenario where DL strikes, DCI keeps working but is rerouted (perhaps in advance) into a nationwide network, and AF/KLM hauls all HVCs to Europe (perhaps even adding a few sections).

You are correct sir.

Carl

It's undoubtedly Scope up, but that's the problem.

Everyone always says Scope is number one, not money. Here we have a deal that improves Scope and the proportion of outsourced flying, but has marginal money. And it doesn't compute for a lot of us. In fact, We've always sold scope for money, and here we're actually making a purchase.

Everyone is shiIIing themselves, because they've been caught in this contradiction.

People trying to ride the Scope issue on behalf of DPA are shiIIing themselves, because ALPA did something not even the most ardent Scope hawk thought would happen: they put negotiating capital in Section 1. Guys that said they would retire if the got medical help are shiIIing themselves, because they were hoping to see the payout for staying, and making a choice to hang out or not.

And guys always said the Reserve sytem was broken and needed fixing. But between the recent improvements and the new guarantee, Reserve isn't a second-class job anymore, and Reserve might actually become a senior winter activity, and a rewarding summer job. And guys re shiIIing themselves, of course, because we actually spent negotiating capital on, what, Reserve? Yes, we spent negotiating capital on Reserve. I sheet you not!

And everyone is looking at the marginal money, and they're shiIIing themselves, because they realize we finally did what we should have always done, which is to negotiate payrate last, and they're shiIIing themselves when they realize how much was left for that (payrates) which they, deep down, covet most.

Last but not least, guys are shiIIing themselves because they realize the entire deal was crafted by Delta with just enough money, and that we're just nervous enough about te economy, and TVM, that the math makes the deal difficult to turn down. Guys just need to turn on CNBC to start shiIIing themselves.

And guys are also starting to realize, when they look left, and when they look right, that the % increases they hoped for are probably not the % increases in the survey. I don't know the numbers, and I would guess the actual results are lower than the survey, but not by much.

So everyone expected the usual bs, where ALPA would come back with more 76-seaters but a bigger increase to show for it, and everyone would grumble about Scope being sold, then count their money. And never even give a passing thought about what a TA looks like, where you actually purchase yourself some Scope. Which brings home the point that contracts aren't free, and since we're years away from being able to apply the leverage of a strike, our feelings have little to do with it. As some love to quote on the other forum, we don't get what we deserve, we get what we negotiate.

ALPA is like a hunting dog we sent into the field, months ago, to get a bird we didn't really want to eat. Now, it's emerging with the damn thing in its' mouth. I didn't see it coming either, to be perfectly honest.

No wonder everyone is shiIIing themselves.

Are you kidding?

Look man, not even Anderson and Smisek agree with you. Smisek wrote Unical pilots that same day to explain to them that Delta pilots "just sold scope...now you guys need to do the same thing. Let's get this done."

Carl

Ya know, something's been sorely lacking from the last 80 pages or so of this thread...something that unites us all....

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gU...25282%2529.jpg

You know, that thought actually occurred to me on day one. I thought "you know, if scope really was better like ALPA is saying, that kinda makes the mediocre pay raises defensible." But if ALPA really considered themselves giving up negotiating capital for this section 1, they got taken to the cleaners. The changes to section 1 simply allow management to do what they sorely wanted and needed to do to make outsourcing continue to work: replace old inefficient airframes with efficient new ones. It makes DCI cheaper, and once again makes mainline pilots the choice of last resort.

One quick question, before I answer your post. Are you currently, as your title says, a regional CA?

I'll have to disagree with you which ordinarily I would not do.

The overwhelming majority of the names on the seniority lists at the vendor airlines cringe at the thought of scope eroding by just one more airframe. Any that don't are likely the 'lifer' type, and those aren't the ones now at Delta with a chance to vote.

I can't imagine they'd become less-so when they're the ones at the company that outsources those jets out.

Yessir, Compass to be exact. I feel a little out of place participating in the T/A debate here, but I'm quite close to flowing and will likely live under this T/A for a few years. I don't get a vote, but it will certainly affect me. Understand that my views on scope are considerably colored by having seen the two-tier outsourcing system up close and personal for the last eight years.