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Originally Posted by bigbusdriver
(Post 1195503)
631 total RJs (unlimited 50 seat and Q-400s allowed):
376 50s 18,800 seats 102 70s 7,140 seats 153 76s 11,628 seats Total= 37,568 seats With TA: 450 RJs Capped 125 50s = 6,250 102 70s = 7,140 seats 223 76s (32 less) = 16,948 Scope up or Scope down? Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant. |
Originally Posted by bigdaddie
(Post 1195425)
Let me throw this out to you. I have no inside information or influence but this is just food for thought. Let's say this TA is resubmitted with the following changes, would it be acceptable?
1) Pay rates +12.8% over current rates at DOS, +4% January 1, 2013, +4% January 1, 2014 2) Profit sharing unchanged (current levels, not TA) 3) +2% to DC plan 4) Section 1 unchanged or REAL improvements, no more 70+ seat RJs 5) This is a biggie to me. AMENDMENT DATE 12/31/2014 This would give productivity improvements the company wants and a contract we don't have to swallow for so many years. Since this TA was negotiated in short order, it may behoove both parties to have shorter contracts with quick paced negotiations in this highly dynamic business environment. BD Carl |
Originally Posted by JungleBus
(Post 1195573)
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by JungleBus
(Post 1195573)
Allowing management to dump 250 old, inefficient RJs they've been dying to get rid of anyways and letting them by 70 new, efficient, 757-CASM mainline replacement jets they've been dying to get their hands on? Scope down.
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant. Carl |
Originally Posted by JobHopper
(Post 1195582)
Except then you get into the whole scab thing, flying struck work and all. The situation you describe is a lot messier than you presented.
Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1195594)
Wrong. If we vote this in, it will be only because many junior (former RJ pilots) voted YES. Current RJ pilots will view this as the last straw for taking away a bigger chunk of their chance for a mainline job. They will not consider it struck work...they will consider it payback. Book it.
Carl |
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 1195599)
I disagree with you Carl. I think the former regional jet guys realize that this is a scope sell. We do not buy ALPA's argument that getting 70 new 76 seaters that are not currently allowed is good for us. It's the military guys that don't think for themselves that are going to vote this in.
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Originally Posted by JungleBus
(Post 1195573)
Allowing management to dump 250 old, inefficient RJs they've been dying to get rid of anyways and letting them by 70 new, efficient, 757-CASM mainline replacement jets they've been dying to get their hands on? Scope down.
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant. |
Originally Posted by bigbusdriver
(Post 1195503)
631 total RJs (unlimited 50 seat and Q-400s allowed):
376 50s 18,800 seats 102 70s 7,140 seats 153 76s 11,628 seats Total= 37,568 seats Without TA with more narrow bodies: 376 50s (unlimited) = 18,800+ seats 255 76s = 19,380 Total = 38,180 minimum With TA: 450 RJs Capped 125 50s = 6,250 102 70s = 7,140 seats 223 76s (32 less) = 16,948 Total = 30,338 seats Mainline adds 10,296 seats DCI loss 7230 seats (plus any evilQ400 planes) Scope up or Scope down? Scope down. imho. fwiw, the 70 seaters don't seat 70. And frankly, I need to go back and look and see if we have any non 50 seat CRJ-200s. |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1195594)
Wrong. If we vote this in, it will be only because many junior (former RJ pilots) voted YES. Current RJ pilots will view this as the last straw for taking away a bigger chunk of their chance for a mainline job. They will not consider it struck work...they will consider it payback. Book it.
Carl |
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