I was in the sim last week and a training guy told me it's approved to put them up where the 10-0 was. Actually, he said you could put them where you wanted: up front, in the back...whatever works for you.

I had guys that just pulled it when they got on the airplane and the CB never went back in the entire day. Funny how we are now dealing with the same crap again. It must save the company alot of money because it seems fairly simple to be out when the door is shut and in when the door is open. It can't get any easier than that. The issue is they want to pay us less no matter what anyone says. If they weren't trying to steal from us, then they would tie it to the door not the brake, beacon, baggage door, wheel movement, etc. If your sitting on the ramp with the door closed, jetway pulled back, slides armed, FA's dealing with the pax, then we should be getting paid more than a 5th grader mowing his grandmas lawn. If they need to track times for D-0 arrivals and other stuff then they can add another sensor that trips with wheel movement if it helps them.

They could do that. The company would however be giving us a free pay raise. I don't see that as a likely. The contract is very specific on what constitutes block time. It is first move of the aircraft for flight and when the aircraft stops at the gate after flight. This is also how flight time is logged and impacts some maintenance items on the aircraft.
The company for many reason benefits by shorter block times including listing positions in CRS systems. There has been talk of coming up with a system for showing a aircraft ready time and another system for block time. Some of Delta's current aircraft can be set up to send a out time at a certain ground speed like what USAIR uses. The others can be modified and that is being discussed as well.
In any case pilots can modify the out or in times online if there is a error or mistake.

One word on the beacon, ground crews are not supposed to approach a aircraft with the beacon on and if the beacon comes on they are supposed to stop all work and exit the vicinity of the aircraft. Most airport in Europe follow this to the letter. If you wait for the door to open in most airports in Europe to turn the beacon off you will be sitting all day since they wont bring the jetway up.

Don't use the circuit breaker ever for the Beacon. Two complete ER crews in NYC faced the loss of their jobs over the issue. Not fun for them until a resolution was reached. Any airport with ground radar gives the company the ability to view exactly when the aircraft pushed relative to when it was showed off. Combine that with video at most gates and you can get yourself in trouble fast. DALPA can defend the beacon on early in most cases for a variety of reasons. They can't defend the circuit breaker being pulled.

Sailing,

Your right, block time is specifically defined in Section 2 of the contract. We seemed to have modified other sections of the contract with SLOA's, why not this one? Or why not have a different definition of "Pay Time?" Nothing says that one has to equal the other.

I'm not so sure that it would be an immediate "pay raise" to the group. There might be a higher cost but I'll bet a couple of beers it wouldn't be that much! Again we are talking about who is responsible and when they should be paid. Me, I 95% of the trips I fly are trip credit trips so, for the forseeable future, it's moot to me.

Denny

How about the clock starts at sign in in 2012?

Ditto. I had recurrent two weeks ago and asked the check guy. I implied that I liked keeping them in front, makes it easier for my simple brain to differentiate the different airports. He said it was fine to move them up front.

That was my understanding of why they are placed at 10-7 vs 10-0. However I can see where having a different colored page to seperate cities would be handy.

So, let me say this about that:
I feel strongly both ways.
Indecision may or may not be my problem.
Indecision is the key to flexability.

Ferd

Looking forward to it Johnso. I've got lots of lies...some true, some not.;)

Will this be all DCI carriers or those with contracts?

I'd be fine with 24 hour 3-day trips! :D That'd mean just 3 trips and you've got 7... 6... Satchip... how... math? The only math I know right now is ratios, 1:7, as in one time in seven years... :D

Ferd, are you a definite maybe for running for congress as a moderate?

Maybe when the FMS shows the airplane as having moved then it clicks out. Personally, I feel as if the contract is the contract and we want them to abide by it and we're forced to abide by it, but what sucks is sitting in JFK for an hour at the gate buttoned up and ready for push but its all unpaid and outside of that being responsible for whether the plane is on time. There should be (and I know this isn't feasible) but three clocks, cabin door closed, cargo door closed and airplane moving. It'd tell ops a lot about the operation.