You don't draw a distinction between people flying for a different airline, and people in training at your own airline?

All your crosswind landing are belong to them.

Not 100% True.
Have a friend of the family who flew for the BundesLuftwaffe. A320 pilot flying their version of SAM aircraft. Got out and turned down by Lufthansa.
They want to train their new-hires from the ground up.

Not saying it's right or wrong.. but to say that there are no home grown pilots in Germany is not true.

Motch

Delta has it covered when you start getting into subsidiaries/holding companies/shell games/etc. Just as they'll lease a jet to Skywest for a dollar a month, they could "subsidize" pilots by charging them a dollar per hour for Seminole time. They'll sign any contract you put in front of them.

Take myself for example - I was hired and paid by Delta as an academy instructor and as a Comair pilot. I've worn the widget for 12 years, but I'm still not on the Delta seniority list. I have no doubt that Delta could have paid for my training and gotten me to commit to whatever, only through a shell company that would keep me off the seniority list.

And then there's the underboob...

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFile...4/81843186.jpg

The company could just get around that with 2 seconds of paperwork. Heck, not even paperwork. Just call it an 18 month interview process. DL currently has pre-hires at various regionals from preferential collegiate pipeline programs that are completely unprepresented by DALPA and many not even in ALPA. Yeah they could theoretically tank the rubber stamp interview if they went tourettes and pee'd in public or something, but they're pretty much hired at the mainline while still in college unless they really do something to mess it up. And as others have mentioned, DL owned a large flight school and used the brand as recruitment material before. It will be done again if necessary.

All this shortage nonsense is just A4A carrying the water of the RAA to keep the ultra cheap feed coming. 1500 hours for regional FO's is a very low number historically and even less dramatic in the face of a shrinking regional structure over all. And there are so many flight schools out there that can and will ramp up when necessary it won't be a problem in the slightest. In fact it will actually help the long term pilot supply by incentivising instructors to stick with it for a year or so. 300 hours and out means no instructors and that just won't work beyond a couple quarters of big time hiring (I know, I know, by then someone will have gotten an A on their B school midterm and/or gotten a middle management level bonus for reducing costs or something and won't care anymore). When things get busy, any CFI can get 1000 hours a year or more, easy. As for cost, use regular airplanes. Not every hour has to be in a G1000 and besides its harder to transition to vastly inferior technology at the airlines anyway. :cool:

It's what I can hold, & what I'd like to hold. But I'll probably never hold the 777, unless I go to Emirates. :p

Ab-Inito programs typically have a high wash out rate. ALPA would not touch it. Back when ASA and Comair were doing the pay for training programs, the applicants were not hired until after they passed the Type / Checkride. If I am not mistaken SWA at one time required the 737 Type. I doubt "Delta" would hire an ab-inito pilot. Even the Delta scholarships had Delta hire the applicant into a job at a regional airline (which is an interesting point in itself ... Delta actually hired ASA and Comair pilots on several occasions in the Company's history)

We should require our outsourced flying be performed by ALPA members and the Compass guys should have been given seniority numbers, IMHO. Before we jump in to represent non-pilots, we should be representing our regional partners.

Then watch the Compass applications triple overnight.

While I understand your intent with that, honestly it wouldn't change a thing. There will always always always be ALPA outsource providers willing to undercut ALPA outsource providers. Not only for growth, but for status quo and to prevent downsizing or the threats of liquidation. Even during good times and even mid contract.

Now I know theoretically ALPA national will refuse signature until a high cost contract is signed, etc. but we have to come to grips with the realization that it will simply never happen because the only reason for the flying be off list to begin with is because its cheaper and kept cheaper from the endless RFP back stabbing low ball bidding process. ALPA can't prevent that from happening by allowing it to happen.

The only solution is to bring the pilot positions directly to the mainline pilot seniority list and CBA. Anything else is putting bacon on the lipstick.

Completely agreed on both points.

I wonder if A4A will change its tune when airlines like Delta pick up the phone. I know I'm cheaper than a 30 year Captain and a new hire is cheaper than me. The legacy airlines could use retirements to reduce costs.