Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Airlines Face Acute Shortage of Pilots - WSJ.com

When we were debating C2012, a DCI management guy started a thread based on the premise that we should not give up anything to entice Delta to park RJ's, because it would happen anyway due to an impending dearth of qualified pilots to operate them.

He was roundly thrashed and discredited by the DALPA propaganda machine. As it turns out, he was spot on.

I'd like to hear DALPA's excuse for its:

a) refusal to acknowledge that the impending reg changes equated to massive leverage for us
and
b) failure to capitalize on same.

Let's also see a public apology from DALPA for:

a) disingenuously thrashing that guy's argument
and
b) lying to us about this not being an issue.

Speaking of RAA and Roger Cohen......

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyallnite (Post 1291625)

Although I don't hold out much hope that ALPA will use this opportunity to our advantage, they really ought to take a page from the American Medical Association.

You can't practice medicine, pass laws, stay certified, and a plethora of other mandates unless you go get the blessing by the AMA. Heck, you can't even get basic antibiotics from a pharmacist without a prescription. I know, nurse practitioners can prescribe in some states, but all must be under the umbrella of a physician and many can't prescribe narcotics.

Kill your patient? The AMA vigorously defends its members from liability. They are deeply involved with the process from undergraduate through residency. They have the political power to get it done and prevent outsourcing in their ranks. But it's true, that profession isn't what it used to be either, although they certainly have outpaced us in recent years.

I do think the ALPA should get involved in the process, even if it's just an ancillary role.

ALPA has not legal way to do anything that you suggest. We come under totally different rules and regulations. The RLA being the principle one. The FAA might also object to ALPA taking over one of their main jobs.

On a different note;
Congratulations to the new reps in Council 20! Many challenges ahead...when are there not...
8

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1291673)

I don't think he's saying ALPA can do it unilaterally. I think he's saying ALPA should be advocating for that. I agree completely. Why have a union if they can't advocate for the profession? If the AMA can do it for docs....why can't our union do it for pilots?

Don't be so quick to jump on the defense sailing.

To tag on Buzz, I have long wondered why; if the RLA is such a limfac on getting our agenda done, why doesn't ALPA press the flesh in DC to get it updated or deleted for our benefit.

Alternately, is it even one of ALPA's agenda items to get out from under the RLA?

There I go being a negateer again.

+717

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1291673)

Further, the AMA has to respond to the DOJ, Commerce Dept, and Obamacare laws. We have the RLA, they have all of those regulators. Still seems to me that our "union" could restore our "profession" without being so accepting of the status quo.

Just a thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1291477)

About this shortage of inexpensive pilots...

I saw an interesting post elsewhere that made me think about the "shortage", and the leverage it would produce for us. I've been thinking that, with the supply of pilots going down, our value would go up. After all, considering what we make now, who is going to want to risk the intial investment, and the uncertain outcome, of starting an airline pilot career?

Which answers my own question. You don't have to make the career worth the investment, you just need to remove the investment hurdle. What if, in lieu of a signing bonus, airlines provided free training in a 2-year program for hand-picked applicants? College requirement: waived. College debt: zero. Time to graduate: cut in half.

Negotiate something with the FAA to further loosen the 750-hour requirement under the excuse of needing to match the JAA Multi-Crew Pilot license, invest a few million in lobbying, say... 500 hours (more than the Europeans). Put in proper training notes so that people have a lengthy commitment, and you have a program.

Think that wouldn't attract some pretty bright people?

Depressing, I know, but it seems to me you could get pilots cheaper by investing heavily in the new pilots, not the old pilots. I wonder if the contract allows the company to have future pilots on the book that aren't pilots yet?

Sneaky. We'll pay the $45,000 cost of your INST-MEII, you instruct for 1,000 hours then we pay for your CRJ-900 initial and then of course all of your Delta sims. The catch?

We take a cut of your pay for your career.

So say if you front the $60,000 into a pilot. You charge him 5% the rest of his career. So if you start him out at 25, spends a year instructing, 3 years at a regional, comes to Delta and retires at 65 then the airline just got paid back $400,000+ over a 41 year period and broke even at around 13 years.

Not to mention with some creative clauses you might strong arm these pilots into say "significant long term constructive engagement" on their contracts.

It'd be one hell of a closed loop operation and pilot group though. :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1291695)

Exactly, buzz.

I love how I've flown more than anyone in my category, and because of that I haven't sat a short call yet. So, I'm in Raw group 2.. the only one, but yet I get short call tomorrow. So, I'm first up to go even though everyone else has flown less and is in another bucket.

We've got to put short call assignments in with the raw groups. Unbelievable.