BB,

I mostly lurk around the here but I have to ask about this. Where are these rumors coming from? If I remember correctly you have been predicting a furlough since the merger occurred.

I'd like to know that as well so I can ignore any and all advice they ever give since they've been wrong 100% of the time. :)

I'd have to guess the big D will be hiring Aug 2013.

Everybody write a letter for Boomah!

Dorfman,

Incorrect with regard to your assertion on me. I predicted a furlough once and am somewhat amazed that management has kept us all on board while trying to relieve the over-staffing with early retirement incentives. Obviously Delta has managed this subjectively instead of being completely "by the numbers" like many other Companies. If you look at total "Delta pilot employment" the Company is down by the early retirees and at least as many pilots as they had at their subsidiary, Comair. Would you be happier if I prefixed logical analysis with "should" ? The effect of our union working for us and management sometimes being magnamous can't be figured into a predictive model.

I think (second hand info) the rumors are coming from former Delta Flight Operations Management who are now working with third parties where they still interact with senior Delta management. The wildest rumors say no hiring until 2018. ( ... and no, I'm not buying either rumor ... )

One of the best sources right now, in addition to the Crew Planning publications, are Sam Mason's reports on International Affairs/Alliances (aka Codeshare Committee). IMHO he's doing a great job and his reports on your Committees » Int'l Affairs/Alliances » Code Share are very good reading.

It's too early to call a bottom, but I'm more certain than ever that things are going to turn around and start being positive in the second half of 2013. We're actually catching back up on the AF JV, or "should" be.

I was not under the impression, implication, whatever; on my own or through the negotiator notepads that we would be hiring in the near term. NONE. Nobody I talked to when I saw ALPA guys in the crewroom talked about hiring based on the TA. The NC and MEC members who were at the roadshow I attended never said we would immediately hire based on the TA.

Rose colored glasses, sell the TA? Really? Widely distributed union documents ADMITTED that the new TA could result in 100-200 LESS pilots required, if that isn't being honest I really don't know what is.

Another part that makes me scratch my head is the same guys who are complain that ALPA admitted to allowing that efficiency and a net reduction in positions in the PWA are the same ones who complain that ALPA "sold" the TA and downplayed the negatives.........Seriously, it has to be one or the other, it can't be both.


I've "rationalized" a lack of hiring. You're right! I use logic, therefore I choose to accept reality.
1. We participated in a large scale merger, overlap is eliminated and the system is tweaked to be more efficient = less pilots in the near term
2. DC-9 fleet reduced incrementally since merger = less pilot staffing needed in the near term
3. Euro economy down so int'l. block hours are down = less pilot staffing needed in the near term
4. WB fleet count reduced as they all go through the flat bed mod lines = less pilot staffing needed in the near term
5. 717's not being put into service until 4th quarter 2013 = less pilot staffing needed in the near term
6. MIL pilots returning to the line = less external pilot staffing needed in the near term
7. BYP pilots will return to the line first = less external pilot staffing needed in the near term

I just can't see those seven things as requiring my anger or angst, its math and I don't get angry at math.

I'm truly sorry if you or pilots you know were hindered by emotion and didn't take the time to think and process the TA on its own merits with recognition of the operational reality of the airline. I hope we can all take a lesson from this experience and evaluate the entire environment and the implications next time we are presented with a contractual decision that requires our vote.

BTW, what merit does a rocker have in this context anyway?

Point taken on the BYP, I was face to face with AK when it was said.

Also, it should be FUR pilots, and there are 203 still out there after the MIL guys come back....

NBC / MIL is 231.

Total of 434 between those categories.

The May 2010 list had 330 FUR and 432 MIL. Total of 762.

762-434= 328 pilot difference.

Staffing increases since May 2010:

FUR 330-203= 127 I think that closely correlates with the "2010 hiring" numbers

Off the street hiring in 2010: 226 (I thought this was like 180 but I pulled it right off the seniority list on Deltanet)

MIL 432-231= 201

Est. staffing additions from May 2010 to now: 554 pilots

FWIW, AK is not a reliable source. I've found most everything he's stated to me to turn out incorrect.

Steve Dickson clearly suggested Delta would be hiring IF the TA passed, reference June 8th Flight Operations update. I heard at least one Atlanta Status Rep repeat this message ... so yes, there was the clearly stated message that the TA "should" result in "hiring" "the last quarter of this year."

Your logic is spot on.

Didn't he tell you "you're hired" ? :eek:

Hope he was right, otherwise we got a lot of paperwork to do ... .

Nope! JS hired me. AK took over in late 2007 IIRC.