Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-05-2009, 04:02 PM
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Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,152
Originally Posted by satchip
Bar, the MEC may be listening to their members and acting on just what they want. I flew with a NYC LCA yesterday and over beers, (yes he bought) he flatly stated that he doesn't care one whit about scope. He would vote to outsource as many jobs as it took to get a pay raise. His reasoning was that he only has about 10 years max left to make enough money to be able to retire.
Although I disagreed with him, I respect him for being honest about it. From his perspective paycheck is everything because of the lack of a DB.
There is a certain point on the list where his point of view will rule. What we more junior people have to do is vote en masse to elect younger reps to represent our segment. I am afraid there is a percentage of the list that will never care about scope.
Although I disagreed with him, I respect him for being honest about it. From his perspective paycheck is everything because of the lack of a DB.
There is a certain point on the list where his point of view will rule. What we more junior people have to do is vote en masse to elect younger reps to represent our segment. I am afraid there is a percentage of the list that will never care about scope.
Classic example of pulling up the ladder. I just can't believe he had the balls to say this directly to someone who also will not have a pension, and whose career will be much more impacted by further erosion of scope. I think I'd rather drink alone that with that guy. No knock towards you intended - free beer has a mighty strong appeal. Especially that sweetwater 420 you bubbas have down south.
Fwiw I too hope to get some reps in that don't feel the same as this selfish d!ck.
08-05-2009, 04:20 PM
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Would you vote to cut the pay rates of the top of the list to regain all the 70+ seat flying? Does that make you a selfish D***? No, it just makes you a normal human being, acting on one's own self interest.
His point was that without a DB he lacks any stake in how the company does after he leaves. In order to provide for his family he has to make as much for the next 10 years as he possibly can and everyone else be darned.
What we have is a huge cultural/generational shift between an older generation who grew up on pensions and retirement promises and a younger generation who have been brought up on self reliance and personal investing. This clash mirrors a wider demographic and economical shift with the retirement of the Baby Boomers. The seniors are vocal and vote in droves so politicians listen and act on their behest. Does voting for increased Social Security taxes benefit the younger workers? No but it mollifies a large and active minority and pushes a larger problem further down the line. Our MEC reps are probably no different. Add to this in our system seniority is EVERYTHING and you can see why the concerns of the junior segment gets short shrift.
I am not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. We can't change this union from the top down. We need to elect local reps who represent our demographic. It will be a long term process.
And BTW, I told him I am glad there is no more DB. A DC makes more sense for my demographic. It's all a matter of perspective.
His point was that without a DB he lacks any stake in how the company does after he leaves. In order to provide for his family he has to make as much for the next 10 years as he possibly can and everyone else be darned.
What we have is a huge cultural/generational shift between an older generation who grew up on pensions and retirement promises and a younger generation who have been brought up on self reliance and personal investing. This clash mirrors a wider demographic and economical shift with the retirement of the Baby Boomers. The seniors are vocal and vote in droves so politicians listen and act on their behest. Does voting for increased Social Security taxes benefit the younger workers? No but it mollifies a large and active minority and pushes a larger problem further down the line. Our MEC reps are probably no different. Add to this in our system seniority is EVERYTHING and you can see why the concerns of the junior segment gets short shrift.
I am not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. We can't change this union from the top down. We need to elect local reps who represent our demographic. It will be a long term process.
And BTW, I told him I am glad there is no more DB. A DC makes more sense for my demographic. It's all a matter of perspective.
Last edited by satchip; 08-05-2009 at 04:22 PM. Reason: addition
08-05-2009, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LeineLodge
Fwiw I too hope to get some reps in that don't feel the same as this selfish d!ck.
08-05-2009, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by satchip
From his perspective paycheck is everything because of the lack of a DB.
So for most of us it's mostly about career earnings..... Having said that, It's not about selling out your fellow pilot. Is this where the, RJ are good for the Delta Pilots Career Mantra comes from? Good for the top 10%
Wouldn't mind being stuck in the middle of the Pacific with this guy in a small boat, I could use him for bait.......
08-05-2009, 04:32 PM
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Exactly! For the senior folks it's about career EARNINGS. For the junior guy it's about CAREER earnings. The same goal just different emphasis.
08-05-2009, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by satchip
Exactly! For the senior folks it's about career EARNINGS. For the junior guy it's about CAREER earnings. The same goal just different emphasis.
08-05-2009, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by satchip
Exactly! For the senior folks it's about career EARNINGS. For the junior guy it's about CAREER earnings. The same goal just different emphasis.
08-05-2009, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Superpilot92
I've been blessed in that i've NEVER been to JFK! I hope to keep it that way for as long as possible 
Last edited by Hawaii50; 08-05-2009 at 05:36 PM.
08-05-2009, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by satchip
Bar, the MEC may be listening to their members and acting on just what they want. I flew with a NYC LCA yesterday and over beers, (yes he bought) he flatly stated that he doesn't care one whit about scope. He would vote to outsource as many jobs as it took to get a pay raise. His reasoning was that he only has about 10 years max left to make enough money to be able to retire.
Although I disagreed with him, I respect him for being honest about it. From his perspective paycheck is everything because of the lack of a DB.
There is a certain point on the list where his point of view will rule. What we more junior people have to do is vote en masse to elect younger reps to represent our segment. I am afraid there is a percentage of the list that will never care about scope.
Although I disagreed with him, I respect him for being honest about it. From his perspective paycheck is everything because of the lack of a DB.
There is a certain point on the list where his point of view will rule. What we more junior people have to do is vote en masse to elect younger reps to represent our segment. I am afraid there is a percentage of the list that will never care about scope.
With people like him, it is less likely that we will get both because the company knows they can fool many of us into thinking we have to choose one or the other.
I am just as concerned about his retirement as I am about scope. What happened to them is not fair. But, that doesn't mean that what happened to the bottom of the list is not fair either. 2012 should be about fixing both.
You should have told him about himself. Let's educate ignorance from here on out.
New K Now
Originally Posted by satchip
Would you vote to cut the pay rates of the top of the list to regain all the 70+ seat flying? Does that make you a selfish D***? No, it just makes you a normal human being, acting on one's own self interest.
His point was that without a DB he lacks any stake in how the company does after he leaves. In order to provide for his family he has to make as much for the next 10 years as he possibly can and everyone else be darned.
His point was that without a DB he lacks any stake in how the company does after he leaves. In order to provide for his family he has to make as much for the next 10 years as he possibly can and everyone else be darned.
Last edited by newKnow; 08-05-2009 at 05:13 PM.
08-05-2009, 05:04 PM
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Position: DAL FO
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Originally Posted by satchip
Exactly! For the senior folks it's about career EARNINGS. For the junior guy it's about CAREER earnings. The same goal just different emphasis.
I would vote yes (depending on the entire document we were reviewing - I'd hate to be labeled a "single issue dolt") for a contract that restored some of our scope but resulted in a little shared pain across the board.
How would this LCA feel about a strike vote? It may cost him a little money for the long-term good of the group, what would he do?
Back to that word "perspective" again.
I think most of us are in the same corner on this issue. I am impressed with your ability to get outside yourself and view this from someone else's point of view. Maybe if we could all do a little more of that, there wouldn't be such a disparity in "perspective."
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