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(reply not aimed specifically at anyone, Sailingfun's post simply outlines the most likely result correctly and succinctly)
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1310105)
... they are expected to be in non compliance. The union intends to aggressively pursue remedies to the situation .... It does however provide us leverage in future JV discussions and there will have to be a penalty to the company for non compliance. At a minimum I would expect a financial penalty equal to the flying that would be required to bring the percentages into contractual compliance.
So, when we sit down to figure out the sales price of our job security, do we:
Our management is smart. ALPA is no dummy either. For some reason neither side wants to stop trading in ALPA members' jobs. My hope is that Delta will eventually find some of that "We love to Fly and it shows" spirit. |
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 1310128)
Section 1 is the most important part of our contract. If we can't enforce it, we are done.
Have we seen any JV's yet that have resulted in more flying for the Delta pilots? If not, then DALPA needs to re-evaluate the language in these agreements. |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1310104)
Sometimes you are a small person. Both slow and alfa DECIDED not to stay around after being asked to stay. I hope you realize that neither of us is unhappy in any way we have been looking for the exit door for a long time, I now get to work less and get paid more. But if your life is so small that it makes you happy to believe that we are weeping in our beers then go for it. This is part of the sad, pathetic politics of personal destruction that leads to a dysfunctional union unable to protect their members interests. Let's wallow in the muck a little more and see how that works for us.
That's not my understanding of what happened, but fair enough. My beef with you two is not what you've done- it's how you interact in a particularly condescending manner with the people you are supposed to support. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1310107)
The only reason they are still in compliance is because of the relief given by the union on the window! :eek:
We have some really qualified people working on this and monitoring the situation. If pilots have concerns they are more then willing to talk with you and explain things in terms that the layman can understand. All it takes is a few phone calls. The union is well aware the company may fall out of compliance and has plans in place to work on equitable solutions. They can't however take any action until they are actually in violation of the agreement. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1310125)
You first. After a little calling around, you learned that in fact...You now state that you share the goal of contract compliance and I am happy to welcome you on board. ... bygones
:The contract is specific on JV flying. I expect the union to enforce that contract but some of the posts here have no basis on reality.: |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1310179)
Your statement is not exactly true. It was a negotiation. In return for the company getting the 3 year window we got a higher percentage of the flying. 2.4 percent if I recall.
I have since my last post been contacted again by people directly involved. There are some interesting numbers. The first thing that needs to be understood is with the Alitalia agreement the company had to grow our share of flying to be in compliance long term. That is part of the 2.4 percent mentioned above if a snapshot had been taken the day they joined the alliance. Had we kept the 1 year window and the metric when Alitalia was added they would be in compliance. That is why they got the 3 year window, allowing them time to add the additional required flying. That has not happened because of the economy in Europe. We have not lost flying percentage wise to AF/KLM. The pull down has been equal on both sides. We did not however gain the flying we were supposed to get with the 3 year window. I thought we had made a greater pull down but that is not the case. In fact in terms of block hours our percentage is up from around 53 percent of the transatlantic JV hours to 55 percent today. The agreement is based of course on a metric more complicated then straight block hours however block hours equates directly with jobs. We have some really qualified people working on this and monitoring the situation. If pilots have concerns they are more then willing to talk with you and explain things in terms that the layman can understand. All it takes is a few phone calls. The union is well aware the company may fall out of compliance and has plans in place to work on equitable solutions. They can't however take any action until they are actually in violation of the agreement. The imbalance was even acknowledged in the LCP meeting a while ago... the company is very aware and appears to be looking for a solution as well. Hopefully it can be resolved with increasing flying for DL pilots. |
KC10 Fatboy, I had the same issue on getting the cursor where I wanted, and finally posted about it... someone explained it to me. You press your finger on the place you want to insert, HOLD IT THERE, in a second a magnifying glass will pop up and you can slide the insert point back and forth and insert with ease and precision. It's not intuitively obvious, and I was considering canning the phone until I learned this.
Very interested in your review though, as I have a 4S but have never been an apple user until this... I'd like to be on a GIII for the screen size, if it has good phone audio quality, battery life, and decent voice commands hooked up to a bluetooth headset. (I do a LOT of business while commuting, using a headset and dictating to my phone. My Palm phone had better voice command integration for do lists and email and texting and calling folks than my 4S, and it DIDN'T send every voice command I made to some apple-server somewhere for a response but was native on the phone).
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
(Post 1309351)
Smart phone wars ...
I just ditched Verizon's Thunderbolt (VZW's first 4G Android phone) for an iPhone5. All I can say is wow, the iPhone is a piece of crap. I can write a book about all the things I hate about it. Sure, my Android had some issues. But overall, the Android system is vastly superior in so many ways. The iPhone iOS is really bad and boring. The lack of Google's mapping software (Google Maps, Local, Street View) is the iPhone5's downfall. The reason why I voiced my opinion is what Johnso mentioned. I have found that when trying to place the cursor mid sentence or in the middle of a word, it is almost damn near impossible on my iPhone. I have to tap or press over and over and over before it selects. It is very frustrating. I have the same results on a friend's iPhone. It could be my fingers haha. The only thing I like about the iPhone are some of the functions that Siri makes easy (say "directions to Orlando" and boom there they are). However, that Apple Maps is the biggest fail ever in smartphone apps. If the Samsung GIII goes Global Ready on Verizon, or if the new HTC Droid DNA gets a bigger battery, I will pay the extra money to switch. I believe the only reason why the iPhone is relevant today is because of the cult following that Apple has and that love affair is slowing growing cold. Apple needs a major overhaul to their iPhone which was once game changing but IMO is below average. |
Originally Posted by Roadkill
(Post 1310194)
KC10 Fatboy, I had the same issue on getting the cursor where I wanted, and finally posted about it... someone explained it to me. You press your finger on the place you want to insert, HOLD IT THERE, in a second a magnifying glass will pop up and you can slide the insert point back and forth and insert with ease and precision. It's not intuitively obvious, and I was considering canning the phone until I learned this.
Very interested in your review though, as I have a 4S but have never been an apple user until this... I'd like to be on a GIII for the screen size, if it has good phone audio quality, battery life, and decent voice commands hooked up to a bluetooth headset. (I do a LOT of business while commuting, using a headset and dictating to my phone. My Palm phone had better voice command integration for do lists and email and texting and calling folks than my 4S, and it DIDN'T send every voice command I made to some apple-server somewhere for a response but was native on the phone). I have a G3, my wife has a Iphone 4S. I would trade her after 2 months with the G3. One of the things I really noticed was in low reception areas which is often with Sprint my wife can make and receive calls on her Iphone when I can't. Several times recently I have had to ask to borrow her phone to make a call. Its seems apple has better reception. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1309853)
Growth to LHR? What did CAL pay for 4 slots?
What is missing from many of these discussions is the reality of being the one national airline of a country. If we wanted a agreement with AirFrance where we flew half the departures or half the seats ect.. it would relegate AirFrance to a bit player or put them out of business. They fly all the French flights to the US while we fly only a small portion of the US flights to France. There would never be a alliance with AirFrance in the first place if such conditions were insisted on. Under the AF joint venture we saw massive expansion in the flying to Europe. We have lost some of that with the collapse in the economy in Europe however we still have more then in the past. I have seen my schedules and time off decimated by what has happened in Europe. I am living it first hand. The forum here wants to cast blame on someone. They think we should fly flights and lose money. Management has a different opinion. There is a reality in working in a industry so dependent on outside economic conditions. Delta has come through the issues in the last 4 years in great shape and the pilot group has made large gains without putting anyone on the street. That in and off itself is a amazing achievement given the conditions. We are told on the forum when Europe recovers we will not see the flying, yet in the last boom in Europe we saw a large increase even though we were aligned with AF. When the Far East collapsed in 09 we saw a large pull back and down gauge in the flights there. We parked 4 747's and moved larger aircraft to Europe. They have recovered and so has the Delta flying. The contract is specific on JV flying. I expect the union to enforce that contract but some of the posts here have no basis on reality. The quote of the money should be a copilot who stated in the lounge that he would be a WB Captain now if we did not have any alliances. Far more likely is that he would be furloughed now or perhaps Delta would be out of business. Its a global economy and like it or not no airline can build the type of network needed to survive solo. Even the Great in his own mind Richard Branson has finally figured that out despite the unique situation of flying out of a airport with no expansion allowed to increase competition. Is it not completely apparent to you that there has been gross stagnation at Delta? While his quote may be an exageration, at some airlines it is not an exageration at all...Hawaiian being one, Air France another, probably Virgin, and likely others with whom we are allied. Our company is shrivelling and it is not without the assistance of the only bargaining agent we have. People talk about Virgin Capts being so poorly paid. I'd like to know how quick their upgrades have been, time value of money and all. Hawaiian has 2004 A330 Captains. We are married to this company. That doesn't mean we should just bend over. Some of us just aren't in the mood for that. We do what we can to help DAL succeed, but with record dollars coming in, our acquiescence has resulted in further marginalization of the DAL pilots. |
Originally Posted by Free Bird
(Post 1310165)
Have we seen any JV's yet that have resulted in more flying for the Delta pilots? If not, then DALPA needs to re-evaluate the language in these agreements.
But DALPA will never, every admit we are losing flying on the top end. They will plow blindly ahead e repeating that all JVs are good for us, and we always got the "Best deal we could." Meanwhile, our (Delta pilots') relevance dwindles. |
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