Originally Posted by Jack Bauer (Post 1354244)

Sorry friend but you will never convince me that breathing new life into outsourced flying, making it viable again (we all know from many mouths, including managements own, the 50 seaters were dying on the vine and are not economical with today's fuel prices) was a good idea. Drop the management/Ford Harrison/DALPA talking points and face reality. We were on the verge of letting RJ flying snuff itself out and then gave it new life by allowing a bunch of them to be flown not by Delta pilots.

You know that saying...those who fail to learn from history....repeat it? Prior to C2012 hurry, hurry, rush sales job...."fleeting opportunity" nonsense the union said "Not one more pound, not one more seat". Lies, lies and more damm lies. It will happen again. Lee Moak is brash enough to tell you to your face "Outsourced RJ's are good for Delta Pilots in the overall scheme of things blah blah blah". Go ask him. He honestly believes it and those who filled his DALPA spot. And the insanity continues.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry (Post 1354232)

The ALV+15 thing enhances seniority on RES. The big mean 9 day will now go to the junior pilot, even if it would have otherwise gone to the senior guy because the junior guy had a couple hours more credit. In the eyes of some, it wasn't a concession, it's what the pilots asked for.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry (Post 1354249)

The CRJ-700 and CRJ-900 and the E-170 and the E-175 weren't about to "snuff themselves out". Where did you get that idea? The 50s were dead, I agree.

It's not talking points it's my own independent analysis. You also have little regard for the actual timeline of events that were leading up to the 717 and CRJ return deal. Do you think Boeing and Bombardier just woke up 2 weeks before the deal was done and decided to wheel and deal some airplanes? These are multi-million dollar assets not tied to a pilot working agreement.

That said, if the company had been snubbed on the PWA, it's my opinion that we'd still be negotiating, and they'd be hanging new motors on CRJs.

I don't care what Lee Moak says - he works for me. And yes, outsourced RJs are good for me - again - all independent analysis. Not talking points. Did you miss the part just 2 hours ago where I said ALPA wasn't representing my interests? Sounds like you're the one with the broken record issue.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer (Post 1354252)

The computers will be programmed to finesse the assignments, guaranteeing everybody flies to the contractual max under ultra lean staffing. You will both end up flying. PS- forget about getting requested days off approved. The new MO of the contract is quickly rolling to how the regionals run....fly everyone to the max until sick calls get too high then crack down on sick calls with more required carpet dances.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1353906)

Exactly correct. This is a different time now. Many in our former MEC bureaucracy have great allegiance to management. They've signed Non-Disclosure Agreements allowing them to just the right amount of "inside data" to keep them feeling like they're management insiders. They truly see their jobs as gaining as much inside information as possible to determine the best course of action, create the "done deal", then put our reps in the position of going along or being the spoiler. This is our new dynamic and it's showing no signs of changing. It makes LEC meetings meaningless as is proven by the examples JungleBus states above.

The lack of meeting attendance could be viewed as acquiescence to this new reality. But 5,100 cards sent to a website and an idea might say otherwise.

Carl

Originally Posted by SailorJerry (Post 1354222)

I certainly didn't vote on anything to get us into this mess, but I'm happy my vote has resulted in 2 quarters of DCI shrinkage.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry (Post 1354222)

It has nothing to do with bargaining agent.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry (Post 1354222)

It has everything to do with those who follow the Delta Military chain of command and who are too apathetic to have a picture bigger than what their 4 year old puts on the fridge at home.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry (Post 1354222)

Fix the apathy, fix the culture.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer (Post 1354254)

I pretty much disagree with everything you said here (except for the part about ALPA not representing us) but whatever makes you feel good about voting yes for years more stagnation go for it. And I the deal was geared toward reducing the 50 seaters with carefully crafted talking point focus on "hey we are reducing the total number of RJ's system wide" (not already existing large RJ's) and you know it.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry (Post 1354255)

So you think Delta pilots aren't capable of flying 14 duty periods a month at an average credit of 4.28 credit hours per duty period? What a bunch of sissies. I flew well over 80 hours BLOCK on reserve before and I could do it again here.

And what are you talking about? Requested days off? So they're gonna tell the senior reserve he can't pick his days off?

Pilots have 100 hours of unverified sick leave available. They'll use it if they're on reserve. But the reserves are only 20% of the company. If the rest of the line holding pilots are at the TLV, I doubt they'll be so overworked they'll get sick. 76 hours a month? I could do that in 2 weeks and 4 days if it was all block. Based on my ratio here, I could do 76 credit hours in a week and 5 days. Where's the hard work? I don't see it.

They make drugs for this kind of paranoia. Were you ever an RJ pilot?

Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 1353715)

I think it was Tom Goodman, the retired guy that posts here occasionally, who remarked that the smartest thing management and ALPA did was move the B-scale off property. Sure, plenty of us have a problem with it, but most of us have no representation and no say at mainline...nobody showing up at their meetings causing messy scenes like you guys in the late 80s/early 90s. Those most affected at mainline are eternally junior, and can thus always be admonished to just be thankful they have a job by the likes of alfa & slowplay. Those who do show up at meetings, like the group of guys who worked on the "study and report" resolutions in 2008, have become used to their concerns being dismissed and their resolutions being tabled - and then criticized for not subsequently being involved enough :rolleyes:.

Originally Posted by dalad (Post 1353770)

Don't hold your breath here, but from what I've heard is that the code share with AS could be falling like a house of cards over their agreement with AMR. If you want to talk to a po'ed pilot group, it's the AS pilots over all the code sharing.