Originally Posted by nwaf16dude (Post 1372937)

Sometimes you guys sound like my teenage daughters arguing back n forth

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1372856)

Jack,

I'm an optimistic person. Maybe that will change with time. IDK. Sometimes the pessimism on this thread consumes me, & my natural defense is to debate the pessimism with the glass is half full approach. I don't believe that this TA will have the negative effect you think it will. In 2-3 years, we should know which one of us is correct.

Whether you believe it or not, I voted AGAINST the TA. But that is really irrellevant, because 62% of our pilot group disagreed with me and the TA is now our contract. Will complaining about it on this thread change that? No. It's over, & we need to move on.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1372865)

I didn't ask you to call them suckers. I asked if you felt they should have allowed their vote to be swayed by his statement. Let's be honest, SD did not have to mention the possibility of hiring. I never have, nor will defend his statement. He(they) may have been attempting to sway voters. But is this not the typical political games we play? How many times will we let Lucy yank the ball mid kick before we stop attempting the kick? So either we base our vote on the TA alone, or we continue to fall prey to politics. At some point, the blame lies on us too.

Originally Posted by daldude (Post 1372872)

That is exactly right. No matter what anyone says it was a sales job to pass the TA. A truthful and reasonable approach would have been to leave any near term hiring projections out and let the TA sell it self.

As far as Johnson's Cheerleader routine. I would be pretty optimistic if I was hired at 28 and was 32 now. But let him be furloughed for half a decade, sit as a FO for 23 years and he would be a little less optimistic and more cynical.

In reality everything that all of the pessimist talk about has come true in that most continue to move backwards, they continue to delay hiring(not only that they openly admit that mother delta does not want to hire pilots), it appears they will continue 757 retirements to fund vacancies following the DC9's. So no matter how good Johnson and Sailing say it is the reality is nothing has come to fruition yet. Will it happen, who knows but as of now it appears they will do everything in there power to prevent hiring or progression. Now what I will say is..... if the pilot group could avoid flying white and green slips for a few months I feel confident we could get the hiring machine started.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1372873)

I'm not disagreeing with that. But at what point do we stop blaming management, & start blaming ourselves? Even if it's only partial blame.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1372880)

I blamed ourselves very quickly. :D

I can't blame management for co-selling the TA.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1372901)

As I recall, the company hired a high-dollar labor-busting consultant to mind-**** us into passing the TA. My guess is, those guys passed out scripts to management, dictating who said what, when.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer (Post 1372981)

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...9K_hoqmFOLaoSu

Look at him. He's laughing at you. He's laughing at all of us. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

Originally Posted by Delta1067 (Post 1373010)

Who is he?