That's hilarious. I post your exact quotes...and I'm twisting your words. :eek: I think you're just not used to being questioned inside your echo chamber.

Again, whether management does or does not consider this during negotiations is immaterial. It only matters that it's at their sole discretion to do so as it's not contractual. The fact that you and union folks use it as a weapon to manage downward the desires of your own members is what's so troubling. It lends credence to the concept that DALPA is nothing more than the communications arm of management.

Carl

Hey, I just found a "Find Beer Japan" app. for my Droid, but it's $3.19! :eek:

I can't pay for an App! They'll trow me out of the Club! :D

I found the Find Craft Beer app, but it's .99 !!

Damnit Jim, I'm a Pilot, not a Doctor! :rolleyes:

I just found BeerWhere, it's FREE!

I'll give it a go and let you know...hell, I may find a new watering hole here in my town!

I think there's a difference between when there's a seat available versus a full aircraft. Are you saying RJ crews shouldn't go through the extra effort of getting you on the jumpseat if there is a weight and balance issue since we'll be inconvenienced?

At CPZ the Jumpseat priority is as follows:

1. CPZ
2. DAL
3. DCI
4. OAL

That being said, Delta's procedure is for the gate agent to issue the JS pass at 15 prior to scheduled departure. Inside of 15 minutes its first come first served. CPZ pilots gladly take the FA JS to get DAL or other OAL pilots on board. We even allowed DAL pilots on our FA JS's for quite some time hoping for reciprocation but it didn't work. Anyhow, if you see a CPZ pilot I hope you'll reconsider your personal JS philosophy.

UA

Damn shame we never managed to reciprocate.

On the other hand, I have had plenty of DCI pilots do everything they can to get me on a flight that is weight restricted. Commuting is hard enough without playing these power games. How is it an inconvenience for you to sit in the FA jumpseat? Heck, you can stand up and stretch during the flight. Look out for each other.

I agree. The RJ guys, not just DCI, I've jumpseated on have always bent over backwards to get me on the flight. It's not the pilot's fault that the priority sequence is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Again Carl show me once where Dalpa has even mentioned this policy.

Again, here's where I got it:


Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfun
They get me too pay on everything. Get over it. Its not going to change.

I've heard this exact same thing verbally from my union reps and my other DALPA acquaintances...despite the fact that it's a lie. They DO NOT get "me too" on everything as you state above. It's entirely discretionary on management's part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfun
If you had worked for Delta as long as I have you would not even question it.

Again, you're not listening. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying its not in writing anywhere. It's in nobody's contract. It's completely discretionary on the part of management. Yet you and union folks use this as a defense as to why our expectations need to be adjusted downward. Why you do that is the question, and one you continue to run from.


-------above was quoted, below is new-----my formatting is AFU...sorry.


Carl and S/F, you guys are both right. There is nothing "In Writing" that requires the company to give the F/A's or anyone else, anything WE negotiate (or should I say, TRADE) for.

However, in practice, as we just saw, via that "We want what the Pilots Get" Pettition, that got them our raises (and got their profit sharing cut 33% as well), the Company, will spend a lot of money on THEM, to keep them from becoming Unionized.

Carl, a little Delta History on why this came to be:

Way back in the 'good ole' days' (pre 1987) Delta Management liked to treat every employee the same, wiht the same benefits, same pass priority, etc. from the lav cleaners (who all worked for Delta), all the way up to the Senior VP's. That's one reason the Pilots didn't have the Jumpseat for years, it was seen as a Pilot Only benefit, so they wouldn't let us have it!

But when Mo'Ron came in, 1987, he HATED pilots. He wasted no opportunity to tell all the other employees that the GREEDY PILOTS were Ruining Delta Air Lines, and going to put Delta out of business, because of our excessive wage demands, when in fact, it was his own inept management decisions that were ruining Delta Air Lines. In 1992, he instituted an across the board 5% paycut for all the Non-Contract Employees (everyone but Pilots and Dispatchers), and then publicly ridiculed the Pilots for not going along!

There were some Sim Instructors (most of them) and some line pilots who actually VOLUNTEERED to give up their 5%! When we went to recurrent, they would try to talk us into giving it up too!

On nearly every trip, we would hear it from the F/A's, the Gate Agents, the Mechanics, etc., on how the GREEDY PILOTS were trying to put Delta out of business! I remember telling one van full of F/A's who were telling us how evil we all were:

I said, "Yeah, just imagine all the money Delta would make, without ANY PILOTS!"

It got real quiet, they had to think about that for a few minutes!

The sad truth is, even though there is nothing in writing, the company will always use that "Well, if we give it to you, we have to give it to everyone..." argument against us whenever we ask for...Anything!

I don't agree with it, but Dalpa seems to go along with it.

I considered them guilty of creating a Hostile Work Environment, but Dalpa never took them to court over it. But the company is hell bent on keeping other unions off the property, all the F/A's and Mechs have to do is have another Organizing Drive, and watch the free stuff (for them) fall out of the sky!

Always with the caveat: For all NON-CONTRACT employees...just like a year ago, when the F/A's were taking their last vote.

What a great example of what life within an echo chamber can do to you. First off, your numbers are both wrong and apples/oranges comparisons. Second, do you realize that you are assuming that NWALPA would not have brought NWA pilots any increases? What a ridiculous assumption you've used to derive your ridiculous comparison. You didn't save NWA pilots sailingfun. We were on track to match you and United when 9/11 hit. Our post 9/11 results were the same as yours.

I realize one of the things you hate most about us NWA guys is that we don't just shut up and color. You're used to throwing out some highly skewed "data", then finishing by saying you're lucky to have a job. Now that doesn't work, and you're upset. I understand. But you need to get over it. It's not changing.

Carl

Heh...in keeping with the theme of the thread lately... we were told that DALPA was on board, DAL flight ops was on board, but DAL Inflight nixed it. Something about "if we can't sit in their cockpit, we don't want them sitting in our FA jumpseats". Nevermind that DAL FAs were the very first OAL FAs to gain access to our FA jumpseats.

For years I put DAL pilots in my FA jumpseats - first on captain's authority alone, later by calling management for special approval on each occasion. I stopped doing it within the last year when both our union and management said not to do it anymore, they wouldn't be giving special approval anymore due to lack of reciprocity, and to disobey was to invite FAA scrutiny. Still do everything I can to get DAL guys (and all OAL) on my flights and I really appreciate it when they do the same for us.