No we won that battle forever by...

collect pants

profit.

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...Bid/Temp11.png

Is it just me or do all the "new" aircraft rumors die faster than they are hatched?

keeping hope alive is important to keeping the peace.

Prior to our current contract a fair number of folks were espousing the "Not one more pound, not one more seat, not one more jet" mantra....

The problem is DALPA negotiators failed to hold the line on scope. That's bad enough, but the pilot group ratified their negotiating failure with a resounding 68% "yes" vote. So as long as Delta pilots keep "caving" on scope, the company will keep asking for more.

Honestly, can you blame them?

I said 90 to 100 seat platform. I was mistaken, as a type we have outsourced a 120 seat platform that can go 4,200 NM.

Imapilot; if I asked you what you fly, would you respond, "Bar, I fly a 160 seat jet" ? Last I checked, there is no reference to a seat limit on your Type Certificate. Pilots, the FAA and management see this for what it is.

ALPA is now on record of approving other pilot groups sitting down with Delta management to make proposals and negotiate contracts. The Delta MEC says that no other pilot group could negotiate for our flying, but, ALPA did not bother telling our MEC what was being negotiated. We did not know what happened until we received the cram down. Not a single Rep objected. Not a one.

So do you have any great confidence that ALPA isn't going to do whatever the heck it wants? It is authorized to do so by law. It is our obligation to manage our union and we are failing to do so.

Whether a 120 seat platform is operated to it's capacity is a matter of negotiations ... negotiations we might not even be a part of. Our contract does have an amendable date after all.

Cool video. I can't believe how agile those things are getting!

Yup. As the old saying goes.... you can lead a pilot to scope negotiations, but you can't make him not be selfishly retarded.

Omit? I can't put everything in one post, a post that was a single reply. Why should I bring up that they wanted to increase the seats? That's been going on for decades, actually longer. Sure they asked this time.....and the time before that.....and the time before that.... We have stopped that at 76 seats and other criteria. It is a constant battle and always will be. Our job to stop theirs to increase.

My point being, IMO, we don't outsource 90-100 seat delta flying. 76 and smaller yes.

You want to define it by the seats they could hold? Fine, the Dc9-10 was an 90 seater, when that left we had the -30.....a 115 seater then. From the Embraer site, E175 up to 88 seats, the CRJ900 also up to 88 seats. By either way of looking at it, 76 or max seat capacity 88. We do not outsource 90-100 seat flying. Also 76/78(-10) or 88max/90MAX(-10), in the last forty years we have never flown ac smaller than the regionals now fly.

Also, I want to stop outsourcing regardless of how long also but lets call it accurately. I thought that would go without saying, considering that I stated in my opening line " I don't like big rj's any more than the next guy but they have been held to 76 seats for a long time."

In defense of the line pilot, even I had a difficult time with the analysis. I remain unsure if the 717 was a distraction to facilitate the taking of more capable RJ's AND resetting the outsourcing incentives through facilitating the Pinnacle transaction. More than a few Pinnacle insiders seem to have strong opinions on Delta's contract 2015.

ALPA vigorously denies C2012 was linked to Pinnacle and /or more outsourcing, but it sure was convenient that our cops did not observe the break in. Further, as soon as objective evidence was brought forward they trotted "the Judge" out to stop Reps' queries into blatant violations of our C&BL and Admin Manual.

The irony was that our current Admin would be called to pay for the sins of the previous Admin, likely restoring the previous Admin to power .... a well engineered political catch 22 if I've ever seen one.

But it is truly sad to see how far we will go to facilitate outsourcing. At the top we must really believe in this stuff.

I have always wanted to stop further large rj's going to the regionals. I voted no on the one issue, my line in the sand, more 76 seaters. Unfortunately you and I are in the minority, 68% of our brothers and sisters had different lines in the sand. You and I know that's how it goes in a union, the good and bad. I disagree with how you look at what is outsourced as we speak that's all.

No, my reply would be a MD88. ;)