Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-23-2013 | 09:14 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2009
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Ok they fly 4 months a year. Sorry for my mistake, but my reasoning still stands! It's not like every instructor is able to fly only the four month in the summer.
06-23-2013 | 09:20 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2009
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06-23-2013 | 09:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
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Let me ask this....IF DAL merged with those guys why would any of us on the bottom third of the seniority list stick around DAL while other airlines hire big numbers? I for one wouldn't be around any longer than it would take to get an interview/job with UAL, AA, etc. This hypothetical merger would crush the bottom of the seniority list for the rest of our careers.
06-23-2013 | 09:30 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: 737 ATL
I am not sure what your objection is. First, Vacation Any came about because of the Scheduling Optimization Team's recommendation, and specifically it was a very popular feature at pre-merger NW. It was largely due to the PMNW pilots' inputs that we have Vacation Any at all.
Further, do you even understand how it works? Under Vacation Any, you will still have just as many vacation days in your bid month as you do now, and they will STILL count towards your PBS calculation for a full month.
What it DOES do is give more guys a chance at either a better regular line, or a regular line at all. Here is a great example.
A guy has his third (tertiatry) week of vacation in mid-February. He doesn't really care about vacation that month, whether this week or that; that is just where it ended up because he is fairly junior. In fact, he hops back and forth from regular to reserve lines due to his "juniority." Prior to Vacation Any, perhaps his vacation week was posted over the only days where there were still trips remaining in the PBS pot--but because he had vacation then, he gets a reserve line. Again, he doesn't care where his vacation really ends up.
Or....in a similar situation, let's say that there are some really good trips that he would like to fly, but again, his vacation days overlap the days of those trips. Vacation Any would fix both situations. Now PBS can move his vacation anywhere in the month, and even split it up IF NECESSARY (and only if necessary) to get the guy what he wants.
Vacation Any gives pilots more flexibility to get more of what they want, more of the time. How is that bad? I think if you give it a few months you will find that it will be a very very good thing.
Further, do you even understand how it works? Under Vacation Any, you will still have just as many vacation days in your bid month as you do now, and they will STILL count towards your PBS calculation for a full month.
What it DOES do is give more guys a chance at either a better regular line, or a regular line at all. Here is a great example.
A guy has his third (tertiatry) week of vacation in mid-February. He doesn't really care about vacation that month, whether this week or that; that is just where it ended up because he is fairly junior. In fact, he hops back and forth from regular to reserve lines due to his "juniority." Prior to Vacation Any, perhaps his vacation week was posted over the only days where there were still trips remaining in the PBS pot--but because he had vacation then, he gets a reserve line. Again, he doesn't care where his vacation really ends up.
Or....in a similar situation, let's say that there are some really good trips that he would like to fly, but again, his vacation days overlap the days of those trips. Vacation Any would fix both situations. Now PBS can move his vacation anywhere in the month, and even split it up IF NECESSARY (and only if necessary) to get the guy what he wants.
Vacation Any gives pilots more flexibility to get more of what they want, more of the time. How is that bad? I think if you give it a few months you will find that it will be a very very good thing.
I understand it just fine. Did you even read what you wrote?
Guys "don't really care about February vacation" , "his vacation was on days when there was trips in the pot" , "there's really good trips he would like to fly but his vacation overlaps" , "now PBS can split his vacation to get him what he wants" , "prior to vacation any he would have got a reserve line" , "he doesn't really care where his vacation ends up" (as long as it doesn't interfere with work).
Don't you understand the consequences of all that? If guys are able to get trips in vacation months that they otherwise could not have, then fewer pilots are needed to run the airline.
Bottom line is simple. With "Vacation Any" there is more flexibility to pack more trips in vacation months. That costs jobs and that is my objection.
Where it came from is irrelevant. I don't care if it comes from NWA or Starfleet Academy. If it came from PMNW pilot input then we have them to thank for killing those jobs.
If it was up to me we'd go back to the "touching trips" system.
We are our own worst enemies. Our union leaders should be explaining that concept to the rank and file instead of enabling these 100 hour months with their PBS "improvements".
Last edited by Check Essential; 06-23-2013 at 09:50 AM.
06-23-2013 | 09:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: 737A
Speaking of our enhanced productivity and lost jobs as a result --
I'm surprised nobody has commented on DALPA's latest innovation. "VACATION ANY"
That little gem is going to cost us another several hundred jobs.
Forget spring hiring. Maybe now we can avoid hiring until fall of 2014.
With this latest "improvement" to PBS we can now move those pesky vacations out of the way and pack more trips onto our lines in vacation months. What a great deal! Just break up the vacation and stick it on any left over individual days when we aren't flying anyway. Pretty much the same as the old "vacation sell back" but without all the embarrassment of actually selling it back.
What is DALPA thinking? Is this really what the membership wants? Fly to the FAR's? Eliminate vacations?
Don't guys realize the correlation between this stuff and displacements?
I am thoroughly disgusted with this trend of destroying jobs in the name of more productivity and more flight hours per month. We are never going to see any advancement on our list if DALPA keeps coming up with these things.
Is it really a good thing to have 20 years as a first officer before the first chance to upgrade? Our union has lost its way.
Maybe its just me (and apparently Timbo) who would like to go back to the old motto --
MORE MONEY MORE TIME OFF !
I'm surprised nobody has commented on DALPA's latest innovation. "VACATION ANY"
That little gem is going to cost us another several hundred jobs.
Forget spring hiring. Maybe now we can avoid hiring until fall of 2014.
With this latest "improvement" to PBS we can now move those pesky vacations out of the way and pack more trips onto our lines in vacation months. What a great deal! Just break up the vacation and stick it on any left over individual days when we aren't flying anyway. Pretty much the same as the old "vacation sell back" but without all the embarrassment of actually selling it back.
What is DALPA thinking? Is this really what the membership wants? Fly to the FAR's? Eliminate vacations?
Don't guys realize the correlation between this stuff and displacements?
I am thoroughly disgusted with this trend of destroying jobs in the name of more productivity and more flight hours per month. We are never going to see any advancement on our list if DALPA keeps coming up with these things.
Is it really a good thing to have 20 years as a first officer before the first chance to upgrade? Our union has lost its way.
Maybe its just me (and apparently Timbo) who would like to go back to the old motto --
MORE MONEY MORE TIME OFF !
06-23-2013 | 10:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 567
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From: retired
FYI vacation Any at NWA had to move all the days as a group. This breaking he vac into groups of days isn't good in my opinion. Basically turns into a bigger vac buy back than it is normally .
06-23-2013 | 10:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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06-23-2013 | 10:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
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At NWA there was vacation any, when you move the days as a group that was vacation slide. Vacation any allowed you to bid a line and have your vacation days fit in the empty spots of the month...it was a benefit for the junior guys much more so than the senior pilots.
06-23-2013 | 10:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: 757/767
06-23-2013 | 11:08 AM
ATL A320 B
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 238
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From: No longer MEM or 9, but still a guy.
Speaking of our enhanced productivity and lost jobs as a result --
I'm surprised nobody has commented on DALPA's latest innovation. "VACATION ANY"
That little gem is going to cost us another several hundred jobs.
Forget spring hiring. Maybe now we can avoid hiring until fall of 2014.
With this latest "improvement" to PBS we can now move those pesky vacations out of the way and pack more trips onto our lines in vacation months. What a great deal! Just break up the vacation and stick it on any left over individual days when we aren't flying anyway. Pretty much the same as the old "vacation sell back" but without all the embarrassment of actually selling it back.
What is DALPA thinking? Is this really what the membership wants? Fly to the FAR's? Eliminate vacations?
Don't guys realize the correlation between this stuff and displacements?
I am thoroughly disgusted with this trend of destroying jobs in the name of more productivity and more flight hours per month. We are never going to see any advancement on our list if DALPA keeps coming up with these things.
Is it really a good thing to have 20 years as a first officer before the first chance to upgrade? Our union has lost its way.
Maybe its just me (and apparently Timbo) who would like to go back to the old motto --
MORE MONEY MORE TIME OFF !
I'm surprised nobody has commented on DALPA's latest innovation. "VACATION ANY"
That little gem is going to cost us another several hundred jobs.
Forget spring hiring. Maybe now we can avoid hiring until fall of 2014.
With this latest "improvement" to PBS we can now move those pesky vacations out of the way and pack more trips onto our lines in vacation months. What a great deal! Just break up the vacation and stick it on any left over individual days when we aren't flying anyway. Pretty much the same as the old "vacation sell back" but without all the embarrassment of actually selling it back.
What is DALPA thinking? Is this really what the membership wants? Fly to the FAR's? Eliminate vacations?
Don't guys realize the correlation between this stuff and displacements?
I am thoroughly disgusted with this trend of destroying jobs in the name of more productivity and more flight hours per month. We are never going to see any advancement on our list if DALPA keeps coming up with these things.
Is it really a good thing to have 20 years as a first officer before the first chance to upgrade? Our union has lost its way.
Maybe its just me (and apparently Timbo) who would like to go back to the old motto --
MORE MONEY MORE TIME OFF !
Part of what you object to on this could be fixed by having vacation credit count towards the pick-up limit all month, and not just count as credit for PBS.
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