I'm still going with outsourced flying at the regionals as the single largest cause of job loss for mainline pilots. As just one example Skywest Airlines had around 9 RJ's in the late nineties and around 500 total pilots. Hundreds of outsourced RJ's and thousands of pilots later...there are actually more departures daily on behalf of Delta via Delta Connection than there are by Delta Air Line pilots. Now go back and review the history and attitude of your union regarding RJ flying before and while it took off, literally and figuratively. They were failed policies then and more failed policies continue today...which has now bled over into large RJ flying, code shares, JV's, Skyteam, etc. ALPA is so worried about keeping the "engaged working relationship", nothing is off limits to be implemented on behalf of management at the expense of mainline pilot jobs.

Delta
Total Daily Flights: 4,684
Mainline Flights: 2,149 — 46%
Outsourced Flights: 2,535 — 54%

Shiz,

Even though many items on your above list also affected DCI, they grew by leaps and bounds at the same time.

Your list is valid, but so is the claim that DCI's rapid growth contributed to Mainline shrinking.
I would also add work-rules and PBS to the list.

Scoop

Nice list, but passenger enplanements are up quite a bit over the past 15 years, 727's burned gas like a '71 Buick, the blood sucking start ups are all gone and pricing is finally overcoming cost of production. How much did we make from checked bags in 2001? Our oil refinery? How much did we pay our stockholders in dividends? 1 Billion this year...

We have outsourced quite a lot, we've thrown a lifeline to the regionals in the form of relief to fly bigger planes with better economics, and we are bending over backwards to accomodate Joint Venture agreements with airlines that have impressive WB order books while we make do with ever older and smaller iron. So far, our piece of the pie is effectively zero growth, zero raise (after new taxes and profit sharing cuts), and zero hiring.

Wake up DALPA? Does anyone still really believe they haven't been wide awake all along? This is how careers get sold... How many former DALPA types in mgmt? Why bother even trying to pretend you're an agent for the pilots of Delta? Its a lot easier if you just tell me you're spending my dues money selling me out, rather than trying to look like you're not in bed with management.

Here's what I think you might be missing TEN. DALPA has absolutely no will or intent to go against Mr. Moak. None. ALPA national will do exactly what it wishes to do. Exactly what is ALPA's wish? It's primary strategy is to become the union of pilots worldwide. The evidence of that is clear.

Now...tell me why ALPA should care who their dues money comes from - if they're getting all the dues? You guys go ahead and fight amongst yourselves as to who should get what flying in some JV/connection business...just don't forget to select dues check off on those paychecks. You'll never achieve "critical mass" if you appear to be favoring one group over another. You have to "spread the wealth" evenly or the pee-ons might revolt.

Should DALPA "wake up"? Well, that presupposes DALPA doesn't already understand and approve of the strategy. The real question is: Will the line pilots of Delta wake up?

Carl

Agreed, although that would be a night at a Montreal strip club compared to some other scenarios out there. Good thing for those scenarios is that, if DALPA has the will to fight for its pilots and especially if we can partner with the company like SWA did, such an uber juniority windfall for the other group can easily be avoided depending on how the deal is structured.

Go Blackhawks! :D :D

Maybe, although there have also been some attempts to defer AP's where crews refused them even though they were legal. I doubt either is the single reason. And honestly, we could all benefit from a re-emphasis on hand flying skills. But I hope we don't take it too far. I've seen guys lately getting cross track errors in nark-ville airspaces like ATL and NYC trying to be hand fly heros. Old school is great, we all get off on it, gutsiest move I ever saw, etc, but this ain't the days of 4 mile airways anymore. Anything with RNAV these days is almost +/- 0.0001 deviation allowed in the eyes of ATC. There are plenty of times to click it all off and get your "Fly The Wing" on, but there are many times, regardless of the visibility, where its a high risk : zero reward exchange. And you know if you're that guy, the company will throw you under the bus in 2 seconds as a rogue cowboy pilot, talking about how you should have used the automation and all that. It takes next to nothing to get dinged these days. Know when to hold em, when to fold em, and know when to couple up and put your pride in your pocket for another day.

Of course since ATC admittingly gives the SWA martyrs mass preference because they valliantly ply the skies without autothrottles (yes, someone actually said that) then maybe this is Flt Ops's way of trying to out impress them. :cool:

I see 86, 85, 84, 83, 82, 81, 80 hour months for some of the ATL M88 B reserve pilots. I thought going above ALV was a international only thing?

All of that is true too.

They so did!!!! Awesome game!!