Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-26-2013, 07:35 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
know your contract...1.E.8 was added last summer.
(And for the record, I was unimpressed we only managed to secure 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share.)
Unless we negotiate something else, PWA 1.E.8 stipulates we fly 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share.
With Delta owning 49% of VA that means nearly half the VA revenue stream at VA goes to Delta.
Put another way, in the VA DAL JV, Delta gets 75% of the total revenue stream...and per PWA 1.E.8 we get 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share or roughly 56.3% of the flying.
In PWA 1.8.E it also spells out that share is measured quarterly with a 12 month lookback.
That's our opening position.
Hat tip to the negotiators who put that in the contract.
Hopefully we can realize that part of our contract language.
The value of VA is in the LHR slots. If Hauenstein rationalizes the VA network and shrinks the VA operation, do you really think the slots will just go unused, or is it possible Delta takes advantage of the slots to add much needed connectivity to the SkyTeam network where it currently doesn't exist?
Virgin not joining the Transatlantic JV is a very good thing for us. That's my point. Now stop being so darn negative t!
Cheers
George
(And for the record, I was unimpressed we only managed to secure 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share.)
Unless we negotiate something else, PWA 1.E.8 stipulates we fly 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share.
With Delta owning 49% of VA that means nearly half the VA revenue stream at VA goes to Delta.
Put another way, in the VA DAL JV, Delta gets 75% of the total revenue stream...and per PWA 1.E.8 we get 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share or roughly 56.3% of the flying.
In PWA 1.8.E it also spells out that share is measured quarterly with a 12 month lookback.
That's our opening position.
Hat tip to the negotiators who put that in the contract.
Hopefully we can realize that part of our contract language.
The value of VA is in the LHR slots. If Hauenstein rationalizes the VA network and shrinks the VA operation, do you really think the slots will just go unused, or is it possible Delta takes advantage of the slots to add much needed connectivity to the SkyTeam network where it currently doesn't exist?
Virgin not joining the Transatlantic JV is a very good thing for us. That's my point. Now stop being so darn negative t!
Cheers
George
06-26-2013, 08:13 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: on my way out
Posts: 89
Hey T. I'm all for LBP. How do you propose we change to this way of paying pilots without any pilots taking a paycut? And at what longevity you propose we stop 12? 25? 30? Pilots are not going to want to change to this unless it's beneficial to all of them, and neither will Delta.
06-26-2013, 08:28 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 264
[QUOTE=forgot to bid;1434944]The MD-90 in DCA:
Delta plane stuck in mud at Reagan National Airport | 11alive.com
We saw this in DCA that day. Those MD90's have a crazy long wheel base. Surprised this doesn't happen more often.
Delta plane stuck in mud at Reagan National Airport | 11alive.com
We saw this in DCA that day. Those MD90's have a crazy long wheel base. Surprised this doesn't happen more often.
06-26-2013, 09:19 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,953
Nothing is magical about 12 years. I used that because it is top of our pay. If we go out of business and we all have to start over, we shouldn't have to start over pay wise from scratch. It is a bull**** pay system that gives start-ups like Virgin America and Jetblue a huge labor cost advantage for years.
06-26-2013, 09:28 AM
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,041
That's our opening position.
Hat tip to the negotiators who put that in the contract.
Hopefully we can realize that part of our contract language.
Hat tip to the negotiators who put that in the contract.
Hopefully we can realize that part of our contract language.
Cheers
George[/QUOTE]
06-26-2013, 10:02 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
For the LBP argument, I decided to make a table:
Love,
FTB
Love,
FTB
06-26-2013, 10:09 AM
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I know there is a weighted system on seating, speed, range, beauty, cockpit setup, prestige, engine size and Boeing-iness that determines pay.
But in defense of the 88 guys, the 90 pays $18 less than the same sized 738 and $6 less than a A320 that seats 10 fewer and $6 less than a A319 that seats 34 fewer and $18 less than a 737-700 that seats 36 fewer.
And yes the A330 does pay less $23 less than the 777 that seats 29 fewer.
But if you take into account the previous weighting list, you clearly see why a MickeyD product goes below an Airbus that goes a Boeing.
that determines pay. But in defense of the 88 guys, the 90 pays $18 less than the same sized 738 and $6 less than a A320 that seats 10 fewer and $6 less than a A319 that seats 34 fewer and $18 less than a 737-700 that seats 36 fewer.
And yes the A330 does pay less $23 less than the 777 that seats 29 fewer.
But if you take into account the previous weighting list, you clearly see why a MickeyD product goes below an Airbus that goes a Boeing.
06-26-2013, 10:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Hey T. I'm all for LBP. How do you propose we change to this way of paying pilots without any pilots taking a paycut? And at what longevity you propose we stop 12? 25? 30? Pilots are not going to want to change to this unless it's beneficial to all of them, and neither will Delta.
06-26-2013, 10:25 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Thanks for the chart FTB, but we have 18 777's, not 8.
Take a quick look down the far right column, you'll see the aircraft with the most seats (747), has the lowest crew cost ($1.14) and as you look to the bottom of the list, you see the crew cost is more than double that, for the 717 and RJ's.
Over the past...20 (?) years, there has been a flattening of the total pay scales, no doubt. The top has stagnated, pay wise, as the smaller airframes have been catching up.
So what if ALPA just charged the company $1 per seat for the Capt. and .67 for the F/O, per hour, for every seat, every jet, across all fleets? Then the planes with the most seats would pay the most, obviously, as they do today, except where the rates are "upside down" as you point out with the Mad Dog, the 747-777 rates, and the A330-777 seating differential.
Can you 'reverse engineer' a similar table, to find what the hourly pay rates would be, per equipment, if all crew costs were the same, at $1.67/hour/seat? It would be interesting to see how much the 747 should be paid. Right now, it looks like a tie between the 767-400 and A330-200 which come in closest to $1.67/hr./seat
I never understood why the 747 is paid the same as the 777 in the first place...using the above info, and $1/hr/seat for Capt. the 376 seat 747's should pay the Capt. $376/hr, and the F/O $251.92/hr.
On a 14hr. flight, each pax ticket would be paying the 4 pilots $654, total, for the entire 14hr. flight.
I don't know what a typical coach ticket costs on a 14 hr. flight, but I'll bet it's well north of that.
Take a quick look down the far right column, you'll see the aircraft with the most seats (747), has the lowest crew cost ($1.14) and as you look to the bottom of the list, you see the crew cost is more than double that, for the 717 and RJ's.
Over the past...20 (?) years, there has been a flattening of the total pay scales, no doubt. The top has stagnated, pay wise, as the smaller airframes have been catching up.
So what if ALPA just charged the company $1 per seat for the Capt. and .67 for the F/O, per hour, for every seat, every jet, across all fleets? Then the planes with the most seats would pay the most, obviously, as they do today, except where the rates are "upside down" as you point out with the Mad Dog, the 747-777 rates, and the A330-777 seating differential.
Can you 'reverse engineer' a similar table, to find what the hourly pay rates would be, per equipment, if all crew costs were the same, at $1.67/hour/seat? It would be interesting to see how much the 747 should be paid. Right now, it looks like a tie between the 767-400 and A330-200 which come in closest to $1.67/hr./seat
I never understood why the 747 is paid the same as the 777 in the first place...using the above info, and $1/hr/seat for Capt. the 376 seat 747's should pay the Capt. $376/hr, and the F/O $251.92/hr.
On a 14hr. flight, each pax ticket would be paying the 4 pilots $654, total, for the entire 14hr. flight.
I don't know what a typical coach ticket costs on a 14 hr. flight, but I'll bet it's well north of that.
Last edited by Timbo; 06-26-2013 at 10:39 AM.
06-26-2013, 10:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
know your contract...1.E.8 was added last summer.
(And for the record, I was unimpressed we only managed to secure 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share.)
Unless we negotiate something else, PWA 1.E.8 stipulates we fly 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share.
With Delta owning 49% of VA that means nearly half the VA revenue stream at VA goes to Delta.
Put another way, in the VA DAL JV, Delta gets 75% of the total revenue stream...and per PWA 1.E.8 we get 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share or roughly 56.3% of the flying.
In PWA 1.8.E it also spells out that share is measured quarterly with a 12 month lookback.
That's our opening position.
Hat tip to the negotiators who put that in the contract.
Hopefully we can realize that part of our contract language.
The value of VA is in the LHR slots. If Hauenstein rationalizes the VA network and shrinks the VA operation, do you really think the slots will just go unused, or is it possible Delta takes advantage of the slots to add much needed connectivity to the SkyTeam network where it currently doesn't exist?
Virgin not joining the Transatlantic JV is a very good thing for us. That's my point. Now stop being so darn negative t!
Cheers
George
(And for the record, I was unimpressed we only managed to secure 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share.)
Unless we negotiate something else, PWA 1.E.8 stipulates we fly 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share.
With Delta owning 49% of VA that means nearly half the VA revenue stream at VA goes to Delta.
Put another way, in the VA DAL JV, Delta gets 75% of the total revenue stream...and per PWA 1.E.8 we get 75% of the flying of Delta's revenue share or roughly 56.3% of the flying.
In PWA 1.8.E it also spells out that share is measured quarterly with a 12 month lookback.
That's our opening position.
Hat tip to the negotiators who put that in the contract.
Hopefully we can realize that part of our contract language.
The value of VA is in the LHR slots. If Hauenstein rationalizes the VA network and shrinks the VA operation, do you really think the slots will just go unused, or is it possible Delta takes advantage of the slots to add much needed connectivity to the SkyTeam network where it currently doesn't exist?
Virgin not joining the Transatlantic JV is a very good thing for us. That's my point. Now stop being so darn negative t!
Cheers
George
Thank you for posting that. It's very interesting...
It would appear that our PWA already covers the Virgin Atlantic joint ownership situation. Mr. Anderson knew of this contract, and it's terms, prior to the purchase of 49% of Virgin.
So what is there to negotiate? It's already there in black and white.
What am I missing?
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