Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-04-2013, 01:34 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by newKnow
For those of you history buffs interested in a great watch on a rainy 4th of July, they are replaying the mini-series John Adams on HBO today.
Happy 4th of July APC'ers!
Happy 4th of July APC'ers!
07-04-2013, 01:39 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by index
regarding the "good faith" basis--
"Note: Such individual circumstances may not be derived solely from the amount of sick leave used by the pilot or the frequency of his sick occurrences."
Translation: the amount and frequency of sick leave use is ALWAYS one of the reasons, it just can't be the ONLY reason.
But theres more. They recently stated that the purpose of a CPO call requiring verification is to "ensure the sick leave benefit is administered consistently, equitably, and in compliance with the PWA." Ughhhh huh.
Right out of the chute they have 4 per-packaged "circumstances" for every pilot on the list: amount and use, and to make sure the benefit is administered consistently (everyone is subject to harassment), equitably, and in compliance with the PWA. Throw in another "circumstance" for good measure and it would nearly impossible to show lack of good faith.
Funny how the company wants to make sure the PWA is being followed in THIS situation. Thanks ALPA! Another win-lose!
"Note: Such individual circumstances may not be derived solely from the amount of sick leave used by the pilot or the frequency of his sick occurrences."
Translation: the amount and frequency of sick leave use is ALWAYS one of the reasons, it just can't be the ONLY reason.
But theres more. They recently stated that the purpose of a CPO call requiring verification is to "ensure the sick leave benefit is administered consistently, equitably, and in compliance with the PWA." Ughhhh huh.
Right out of the chute they have 4 per-packaged "circumstances" for every pilot on the list: amount and use, and to make sure the benefit is administered consistently (everyone is subject to harassment), equitably, and in compliance with the PWA. Throw in another "circumstance" for good measure and it would nearly impossible to show lack of good faith.
Funny how the company wants to make sure the PWA is being followed in THIS situation. Thanks ALPA! Another win-lose!
Did the CP see you without a hat? Company doesn't like your gate latency compliance numbers? The possibilities are endless. They could all be "good faith" reasons to harass you on your next sick call. None of them are prohibited by the PWA.
07-04-2013, 01:44 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
First, who holds the checkbook on ALPA?
Second, let me put it this way:
Scott Boras (super agent): Hey A-Rod, hey man, about these negotiations, yeah... this won't work unless you get down here and volunteer in the office.
A-Rod:
Second, let me put it this way:
Scott Boras (super agent): Hey A-Rod, hey man, about these negotiations, yeah... this won't work unless you get down here and volunteer in the office.
A-Rod:
07-04-2013, 01:50 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
T, let me ask you this. you asked for my workable strategy but may I ask what you consider a good one to be?
From what you said here:
I guess TVM? But how far do you go with a TVM strategy?
I bet we could get a 10% YOY raise for 5 years if we're willing to give up some things elsewhere. For some, they make a fortune becasue of TVM, others... eh.
What if time is on your side, why give that up since we rarely have any leverage at all? What's wrong with saying screw TVM and going for doing the contract right no matter how long it takes? For some of us we've got 30 years left at this place, maybe we'd like to do things right and not just focus on the TVM. But that's me.
And btw after having a AMR 777A in the JS the other day I'm going to say the "well look at the APA" meme is about as straw man of that other popular meme "but that's what senior pilots want!" Saying "APA" and "senior pilot" is nothing but a cover for a questionable strategy or decision.
From what you said here:
"How long do you think it will take before we would be released to self help, and how much do you believe we can get when we are released. Now please factor in all the money we will have lost. (TVM for all you home gamers, and again, if you do not believe that concept is real, ask an American pilot how the lack of it has worked for him)"
I bet we could get a 10% YOY raise for 5 years if we're willing to give up some things elsewhere. For some, they make a fortune becasue of TVM, others... eh.
What if time is on your side, why give that up since we rarely have any leverage at all? What's wrong with saying screw TVM and going for doing the contract right no matter how long it takes? For some of us we've got 30 years left at this place, maybe we'd like to do things right and not just focus on the TVM. But that's me.
And btw after having a AMR 777A in the JS the other day I'm going to say the "well look at the APA" meme is about as straw man of that other popular meme "but that's what senior pilots want!" Saying "APA" and "senior pilot" is nothing but a cover for a questionable strategy or decision.
07-04-2013, 01:59 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
T, let me ask you this. you asked for my workable strategy but may I ask what you consider a good one to be?
From what you said here:
I guess TVM? But how far do you go with a TVM strategy?
I bet we could get a 10% YOY raise for 5 years if we're willing to give up some things elsewhere. For some, they make a fortune becasue of TVM, others... eh.
What if time is on your side, why give that up since we rarely have any leverage at all? What's wrong with saying screw TVM and going for doing the contract right no matter how long it takes? For some of us we've got 30 years left at this place, maybe we'd like to do things right and not just focus on the TVM. But that's me.
And btw after having a AMR 777A in the JS the other day I'm going to say the "well look at the APA" meme is about as substantive as the other popular meme "but that's what senior pilots want!" Both are straw men arguments to me.
From what you said here:
I guess TVM? But how far do you go with a TVM strategy?
I bet we could get a 10% YOY raise for 5 years if we're willing to give up some things elsewhere. For some, they make a fortune becasue of TVM, others... eh.
What if time is on your side, why give that up since we rarely have any leverage at all? What's wrong with saying screw TVM and going for doing the contract right no matter how long it takes? For some of us we've got 30 years left at this place, maybe we'd like to do things right and not just focus on the TVM. But that's me.
And btw after having a AMR 777A in the JS the other day I'm going to say the "well look at the APA" meme is about as substantive as the other popular meme "but that's what senior pilots want!" Both are straw men arguments to me.
Tell me how much time is on our side and how much will be wasted utilizing that "leverage". Some of us don't have 30 years left. Maybe it is OK for you to wait 5, 6, 7 years to "get it right". Some don't have that long and that is unacceptable. Their quandary is every bit as important as yours too, and it is wrong for you to believe (demand) otherwise.
Good discussion, but there are fireworks in a few hours, so off I go..
Down with the British.
07-04-2013, 02:02 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,993
Originally Posted by NERD
Pay raise? Was reserve on the baby bus. 6% hourly raise on day one, with a reduction in guarantee by 5 hrs. $100 less per month. Commuted before and still do. No better, no worse in that area. Better management? That is up for debate. While Delta puts on a show about a better environment, my observation is they stretch the truth to put it mildly. They tell the pilot group(all employees for that matter) what they want to hear and do something else. Delta employees buy into it (it being the Delta of old which no longer exists). At NWA, imho you always new where you stood with mgmt. Which was that you are a cost to be managed, nothing personal. Prosperity? Again my opinion is without the merger both would have been back in ch11 by late 2009. The combined airline is what kept us out and now is profitable and is better than the two were alone. Happy 4th to all.
07-04-2013, 02:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by tsquare
Ax yourself. Why is it crushing them?
100's of 7ER FO's displaced to other 7ER categories or to 737 FO = 100's more 7ER or 737 FO's displaced to 320 or MD88 = 100's more FO's displaced to 717.
Now, I know I've only been at Delta 13 years and am still in the bottom 15.6% of the seniority list but that does not sound good to me.
So why is it crushing the FO's well ultimately we had unrealistic expectations of the direction the seniority list would move with the acquisition of new aircraft and retirements.
07-04-2013, 03:11 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 402
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
It went over my head and he is a much better investor than I.
07-04-2013, 03:48 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by tsquare
Good discussion, but there are fireworks in a few hours, so off I go..
Down with the British.
Fireworks in Atlanta,
"mom, I'm cold..." I'm left wishing I had HBO to join The Newk in his John Adams marathon! Of course Newk, the funny thing about that documentary was all of the crazy stuff that seemed fictional was real and then they made simple stuff fictional. Why do they do that?! Sometimes tell the story straight, it'd be interesting enough. I learned a lot watching that with wikipedia open.
07-04-2013, 05:10 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by buzzpat
Secondly, as to our merger, I feel like I just stumbled into a 2008 version of an APC thread, or a UAL/Continental thread, or a US Air/AA thread, or SWA/AT.....move on guys. We're kicking ass and taking names while these other companies thrash about. It's over....and it's working.
Carl
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