Originally Posted by forgot to bid

T, let me ask you this. you asked for my workable strategy but may I ask what you consider a good one to be?

From what you said here:


I guess TVM? But how far do you go with a TVM strategy?

I bet we could get a 10% YOY raise for 5 years if we're willing to give up some things elsewhere. For some, they make a fortune becasue of TVM, others... eh.

What if time is on your side, why give that up since we rarely have any leverage at all? What's wrong with saying screw TVM and going for doing the contract right no matter how long it takes? For some of us we've got 30 years left at this place, maybe we'd like to do things right and not just focus on the TVM. But that's me.

And btw after having a AMR 777A in the JS the other day I'm going to say the "well look at the APA" meme is about as substantive as the other popular meme "but that's what senior pilots want!" Both are straw men arguments to me.

Originally Posted by NERD

Pay raise? Was reserve on the baby bus. 6% hourly raise on day one, with a reduction in guarantee by 5 hrs. $100 less per month. Commuted before and still do. No better, no worse in that area. Better management? That is up for debate. While Delta puts on a show about a better environment, my observation is they stretch the truth to put it mildly. They tell the pilot group(all employees for that matter) what they want to hear and do something else. Delta employees buy into it (it being the Delta of old which no longer exists). At NWA, imho you always new where you stood with mgmt. Which was that you are a cost to be managed, nothing personal. Prosperity? Again my opinion is without the merger both would have been back in ch11 by late 2009. The combined airline is what kept us out and now is profitable and is better than the two were alone. Happy 4th to all.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Ax yourself. Why is it crushing them?

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

It went over my head and he is a much better investor than I.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Good discussion, but there are fireworks in a few hours, so off I go..

Down with the British.

Originally Posted by buzzpat

Secondly, as to our merger, I feel like I just stumbled into a 2008 version of an APC thread, or a UAL/Continental thread, or a US Air/AA thread, or SWA/AT.....move on guys. We're kicking ass and taking names while these other companies thrash about. It's over....and it's working.

Originally Posted by tsquare

So wouldn't that tell you that there is a lot more to this negotiation thingy than just demanding stuff and folding our arms?

Originally Posted by tsquare

Just asking, because if that is all there is to it, then the doughnut holes are right.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Let's fire ALPA,

Originally Posted by tsquare

demand what we "deserve" and wait a couple of weeks to sign the first big check.

Originally Posted by tsquare

It all must be so simple... I wonder why ALPA can't deliver on everybody's nirvana.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

You do know that hundreds of pilots have upgraded to Captain already right? Just because it's not you it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. And the first 717 is not even on the property yet. When you saw that 737-900's were replacing 757's (clearly stated in the TA analysis) what did you expect to happen to 7ER staffing? Did you really think they would keep the same number of pilots while reducing the aircraft count? By the way I am a 7ER captain and my category is shrinking away, just like I thought it would when everyone said openly and repeatedly that they were retiring 757's. In over two decades of flying I have never seen a time when they cut back on a specific type of aircraft and didn't reduce the staffing on that aircraft. Is that something you are used to seeing?

In fact, you had a completely accurate picture, it is just you chose to think it meant something else. It was clearly stated that the 717's would be on the property in September and that is two months away. It was clearly stated that this transition was a three year process that hasn't even begun yet. I am not sure what you expected but what is happening is exactly what you were told.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

From the Delta MEC:

Some will argue these increases are not enough and that we should hold out for more, but this ignores the time-value of consistent year-over-year increases. Southwest pilots, for example, are where they are today because they work for a consistently profitable company and have received a series of modest pay increases.

In terms of scope, we were able to achieve important improvements, from the smallest jets through international joint venture protections. Scope is the most complex section of the contract. At its core, it is about who flies Delta’s passengers and ultimately, about Delta pilot jobs.

Importantly, we will have a block hour ratio, which establishes a minimum amount of mainline flying relative to DCI flying and a cap on the total number of 50 to 76 seat DCI aircraft. Delta will be permitted accelerated access to 76-seat jets, but this access can only occur if Delta first acquires small narrow-body jets flown by Delta mainline pilots and if there is a significant reduction in the number of 50-seat aircraft. Without the acquisition of these new mainline aircraft, Delta will be capped at the current level for 70/76-seat jets. Ultimately, under this agreement, Delta’s access to 76-seat jets will be capped at 32 less than what is allowed in the current PWA. Additionally, Delta will no longer be permitted to convert 70-seat jets to 76-seat jets going forward, regardless of the size of the mainline fleet.

Delta management decides which aircraft it operates, but we have every reason to believe that Delta will soon announce the purchase of aircraft contingent on the ratification of this agreement. This will represent a major opportunity for many of our pilots to upgrade from the right seat to the left seat and will also create a need for additional hiring for the right seat. While the details are complex and best left for a dedicated Negotiators’ Notepad, let me summarize by saying that if Delta executes its plan for the small narrow-body jet flying, the result will be a major shift of block hours to Delta mainline. The share of mainline domestic flying will increase by 21 percent and the ratio of mainline domestic to DCI flying will increase by 57 percent over the life of this agreement.

We achieved a number of improvements in the scheduling arena, and one of the most significant is in the area of reserve flying. The reserve guarantee will be established as two hours below the average line value (ALV) with a floor of 72 and a ceiling of 80. This improvement alone will result in a monthly pay increase for reserves of between 2.9 - 14.3 percent depending on the monthly ALV, before the pay table increases are applied. Combined with the other improvements to reserve, it is my view that when viewed in aggregate, we will have the best reserve system in the industry.

The complicated and often punitive 75 percent sick leave bank has been eliminated. All sick leave up to a pilot’s yearly accrued maximum will be paid at 100 percent, and for pilots with over 20 years of service, the sick leave accrual will increase from 240 to 270 hours per year.

The agreement also includes an early retirement program similar in scope to the program offered to other Delta employees earlier this year, and this program will also be the subject of a standalone communication.

There are many other improvements in the tentative agreement such as “vacation any,” average daily guarantee (ADG), elimination of the sick leave monitoring program and others too numerous to cover here. In addition to the communications I’ve already discussed, the MEC administration and the Negotiating Committee will begin a series of system-wide road shows commencing after the Memorial Day weekend. We will also produce a streaming video for those unable to make it to a road show. In short, we will do everything in our power to provide you with all the information you need to cast an informed vote once the ratification window opens next month.

In mediation, the average time spent to reach an agreement is 29 months. Our time in mediation could be more; it could be less. But if we take the average, that means we might not reach an agreement until the fall of 2015, just months ahead of the amendable date of the recently achieved tentative agreement. Put another way, we’ll be deep into negotiations for ourfollow-on agreement (Contract 2015) even before we might have reached an agreement on Contract 2012.

In a recent Chairman’s Letter to you, I wrote somewhat cryptically about fleeting opportunities, and earlier in this letter, I wrote about Delta’s fleet plan. The value the Delta pilots receive in conjunction with this TA is a result of Delta’s desire to execute its business plan in a timely fashion. It is in large part due to this leverage that we were able to seize the opportunity to reach this agreement over seven months ahead of the amendable date. Delta can execute a portion of its fleet plan without an agreement with ALPA, but this is a rare opportunity to accelerate and enhance that plan to the benefit of both Delta and the Delta pilots.

Finally, I would like to thank the MEC Negotiating Committee and their expanded team for the incredible work they have done over the past 18 months and in particular, during the last two months. The Delta pilots have once again set the bar for pattern bargaining, and shattered the paradigm of drawn-out negotiations. Importantly, if this agreement is ratified, we don’t intend to stop there. Your MEC will continue to make incremental but significant improvements at every opportunity, just as we have for the past several years.
The Delta MEC Negotiating Committee wholeheartedly endorses this agreement, and the Delta MEC has approved and endorsed this agreement. It is my recommendation that when the time comes to cast your vote, you vote to ratify the agreement.

Originally Posted by tsquare

non sequitur. Besides, you are dodging the question. But if that is supposed to mean that we tell dALPA to do just what you infer... stand with arms folded until we get a "better deal" count me out. That is not a strategy, it is a purely emotional response which offers zero return and zero in my wallet for an undetermined period of time. Show me a real return, and I will listen. Other than that.....