Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-04-2013 | 06:11 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
You're right buzz, but I can't let this go when Bucking Bar does this. For some reason, every year or so, Bucking Bar brings up his hurt feelings about our SLI and especially the pull and plug. And it's brought up completely out of the blue. He has a right to do it, but I wish he wouldn't. I have a right to respond, but I wish I didn't have to.
Carl
Carl
07-04-2013 | 06:13 PM
Moderator
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From: B757/767
...........
07-04-2013 | 06:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,206
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From: DAL FO
LL: Hi I'm LeineLodge and I'm a tool on APC on the 4th of July
All: Hi LeineLodge
Now that I got that out of the way, here are the good things that I have gotten out of C2012:
- I bid RSV almost every month now that the guarantee is 72-80, instead of the "old" 70. Other guys are doing this too. I was told the avg would be around 75.5 and this is probably going to be pretty accurate. Translation: more $ in my pocket, more REG lines for guys junior to me (not even going into the bucket discussion that's been beaten to a pulp)
- ADG - again as a RSV pilot, this is a good deal. Especially on a GS. I've done multiple GS trips in the past few months that would have only been 4:00 (one leg out, short overnight, one leg back) but now are worth 9:00. More $ in my pocket
- Slightly better training/vacation pay. I'm not wowed by it, but it is more $ in my pocket. I'm about as junior as they get and it translates to over $500 extra per year. That's 2 weeks of vacation, 2 days of CQ, and the lowest pay rate (DC9) I can be on at 6 years longevity. Nearly everyone else is getting more out of these little items
- Sick Leave - No more 70%. I actually ran into this in the spring, and burned deep enough into my sick bank that I WOULD have hit the 70% pay. Very nice to be rid of that. While I'm on the topic, I don't really give a hoot if the CPO calls me about my sick call. I don't fly when I'm sick, and I don't call in sick when I'm not. If they want to verify something that's fine. I've got nothing to hide. I WILL document the event for ALPA to track these things, and recommend everyone else do the same.
Just these few items have significantly bumped my pay. End of June paystub was MUCH higher than last June and I'm 3 pay steps down from where I was last year. Everyone's results vary, but if you are on reserve there is a very good chance that you are doing better than you were last year. Can't speak much to being a REG pilot.
Retirement goes to 15% on Jan 1st which is good. Higher would be better, but I'd be fine leaving it there and working on pay (which would result in more retirement $) in the future.
That's the good stuff. Next post will have my thoughts on the "bad"
All: Hi LeineLodge
Now that I got that out of the way, here are the good things that I have gotten out of C2012:
- I bid RSV almost every month now that the guarantee is 72-80, instead of the "old" 70. Other guys are doing this too. I was told the avg would be around 75.5 and this is probably going to be pretty accurate. Translation: more $ in my pocket, more REG lines for guys junior to me (not even going into the bucket discussion that's been beaten to a pulp)
- ADG - again as a RSV pilot, this is a good deal. Especially on a GS. I've done multiple GS trips in the past few months that would have only been 4:00 (one leg out, short overnight, one leg back) but now are worth 9:00. More $ in my pocket
- Slightly better training/vacation pay. I'm not wowed by it, but it is more $ in my pocket. I'm about as junior as they get and it translates to over $500 extra per year. That's 2 weeks of vacation, 2 days of CQ, and the lowest pay rate (DC9) I can be on at 6 years longevity. Nearly everyone else is getting more out of these little items
- Sick Leave - No more 70%. I actually ran into this in the spring, and burned deep enough into my sick bank that I WOULD have hit the 70% pay. Very nice to be rid of that. While I'm on the topic, I don't really give a hoot if the CPO calls me about my sick call. I don't fly when I'm sick, and I don't call in sick when I'm not. If they want to verify something that's fine. I've got nothing to hide. I WILL document the event for ALPA to track these things, and recommend everyone else do the same.
Just these few items have significantly bumped my pay. End of June paystub was MUCH higher than last June and I'm 3 pay steps down from where I was last year. Everyone's results vary, but if you are on reserve there is a very good chance that you are doing better than you were last year. Can't speak much to being a REG pilot.
Retirement goes to 15% on Jan 1st which is good. Higher would be better, but I'd be fine leaving it there and working on pay (which would result in more retirement $) in the future.
That's the good stuff. Next post will have my thoughts on the "bad"
07-04-2013 | 06:19 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
07-04-2013 | 06:50 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
07-04-2013 | 06:56 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,206
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From: DAL FO
....the "bad stuff":
- We're not hiring. I sat through the roadshows, spoke to the negotiators, and to the guys that were "in the room." I spoke to my reps. I genuinely believe that they all thought we would be hiring by now. It is delayed a little longer than I would like to see, but it is coming; probably sooner than later. My take is the company is pushing so hard to show a massive profit for the investors, that they have pushed off as many non-essential costs to the 11th hour. It might turn out to bite them in the form of crew shortages. We will see.
- The displacement shuffle continues. This is similar to the first point. Once the airplanes start showing up this will hopefully ease some of the angst that many guys are feeling with the lack of progress.
One thing I know for certain. I was never lied to. The "they lied to us" theme is just the latest tactic from Carl's crowd to try and gain support, which only divides us further. I read the contract. Yes, actually read it, not relied on a slideshow, and made my decision. It wasn't perfect, but it was certainly an improvement.
The repeated suggestion to "talk to your reps" or "volunteer" is simply asking guys to engage in the real world, with the way things really are. If my main source of information was this thread, I might think the sky was falling too. It is vitally important, especially for us junior guys that have awhile to go, to step away from the keyboard and have some real world contact with our union.
I filled out a card for Carl's group several years ago because their talking points sounded good. As I've dug a little deeper, I've come to realize that ALPA is not the root of all evil (nor is it perfect.) Progress is slow, but steady. Just take a look at the massive legislative effort that took place last month on Capitol Hill. It would be years before a new union is in a place to mount such an effort - not that it sounds like Carl thinks we need to. Much better to let our demands be known then head down to the bank to cash our big checks...
Back to my drink and what's left of the 4th.
Happy and Proud to be American, and a Delta Pilot!
LeineLodge
- We're not hiring. I sat through the roadshows, spoke to the negotiators, and to the guys that were "in the room." I spoke to my reps. I genuinely believe that they all thought we would be hiring by now. It is delayed a little longer than I would like to see, but it is coming; probably sooner than later. My take is the company is pushing so hard to show a massive profit for the investors, that they have pushed off as many non-essential costs to the 11th hour. It might turn out to bite them in the form of crew shortages. We will see.
- The displacement shuffle continues. This is similar to the first point. Once the airplanes start showing up this will hopefully ease some of the angst that many guys are feeling with the lack of progress.
One thing I know for certain. I was never lied to. The "they lied to us" theme is just the latest tactic from Carl's crowd to try and gain support, which only divides us further. I read the contract. Yes, actually read it, not relied on a slideshow, and made my decision. It wasn't perfect, but it was certainly an improvement.
The repeated suggestion to "talk to your reps" or "volunteer" is simply asking guys to engage in the real world, with the way things really are. If my main source of information was this thread, I might think the sky was falling too. It is vitally important, especially for us junior guys that have awhile to go, to step away from the keyboard and have some real world contact with our union.
I filled out a card for Carl's group several years ago because their talking points sounded good. As I've dug a little deeper, I've come to realize that ALPA is not the root of all evil (nor is it perfect.) Progress is slow, but steady. Just take a look at the massive legislative effort that took place last month on Capitol Hill. It would be years before a new union is in a place to mount such an effort - not that it sounds like Carl thinks we need to. Much better to let our demands be known then head down to the bank to cash our big checks...
Back to my drink and what's left of the 4th.
Happy and Proud to be American, and a Delta Pilot!
LeineLodge
07-04-2013 | 07:34 PM
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
....the "bad stuff":
- We're not hiring. I sat through the roadshows, spoke to the negotiators, and to the guys that were "in the room." I spoke to my reps. I genuinely believe that they all thought we would be hiring by now. It is delayed a little longer than I would like to see, but it is coming; probably sooner than later. My take is the company is pushing so hard to show a massive profit for the investors, that they have pushed off as many non-essential costs to the 11th hour. It might turn out to bite them in the form of crew shortages. We will see.
- The displacement shuffle continues. This is similar to the first point. Once the airplanes start showing up this will hopefully ease some of the angst that many guys are feeling with the lack of progress.
One thing I know for certain. I was never lied to. The "they lied to us" theme is just the latest tactic from Carl's crowd to try and gain support, which only divides us further. I read the contract. Yes, actually read it, not relied on a slideshow, and made my decision. It wasn't perfect, but it was certainly an improvement.
The repeated suggestion to "talk to your reps" or "volunteer" is simply asking guys to engage in the real world, with the way things really are. If my main source of information was this thread, I might think the sky was falling too. It is vitally important, especially for us junior guys that have awhile to go, to step away from the keyboard and have some real world contact with our union.
I filled out a card for Carl's group several years ago because their talking points sounded good. As I've dug a little deeper, I've come to realize that ALPA is not the root of all evil (nor is it perfect.) Progress is slow, but steady. Just take a look at the massive legislative effort that took place last month on Capitol Hill. It would be years before a new union is in a place to mount such an effort - not that it sounds like Carl thinks we need to. Much better to let our demands be known then head down to the bank to cash our big checks...
Back to my drink and what's left of the 4th.
Happy and Proud to be American, and a Delta Pilot!
LeineLodge
- We're not hiring. I sat through the roadshows, spoke to the negotiators, and to the guys that were "in the room." I spoke to my reps. I genuinely believe that they all thought we would be hiring by now. It is delayed a little longer than I would like to see, but it is coming; probably sooner than later. My take is the company is pushing so hard to show a massive profit for the investors, that they have pushed off as many non-essential costs to the 11th hour. It might turn out to bite them in the form of crew shortages. We will see.
- The displacement shuffle continues. This is similar to the first point. Once the airplanes start showing up this will hopefully ease some of the angst that many guys are feeling with the lack of progress.
One thing I know for certain. I was never lied to. The "they lied to us" theme is just the latest tactic from Carl's crowd to try and gain support, which only divides us further. I read the contract. Yes, actually read it, not relied on a slideshow, and made my decision. It wasn't perfect, but it was certainly an improvement.
The repeated suggestion to "talk to your reps" or "volunteer" is simply asking guys to engage in the real world, with the way things really are. If my main source of information was this thread, I might think the sky was falling too. It is vitally important, especially for us junior guys that have awhile to go, to step away from the keyboard and have some real world contact with our union.
I filled out a card for Carl's group several years ago because their talking points sounded good. As I've dug a little deeper, I've come to realize that ALPA is not the root of all evil (nor is it perfect.) Progress is slow, but steady. Just take a look at the massive legislative effort that took place last month on Capitol Hill. It would be years before a new union is in a place to mount such an effort - not that it sounds like Carl thinks we need to. Much better to let our demands be known then head down to the bank to cash our big checks...
Back to my drink and what's left of the 4th.
Happy and Proud to be American, and a Delta Pilot!
LeineLodge
Leine,
Great Post. I agree with pretty much everything except what I bolded above. It is too late for any "sooner." Even if we start hiring tomorrow it would already be "later."
Scoop
07-04-2013 | 07:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
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By when? Did you think that they would bid out 1,000 spots by July 2013 for the 717 when they are coming at 3 a month for almost 30 months starting in late 2013 and ending in 2015 or 16? Seriously, you have been around this industry for a while, you know about aircraft deliveries and how they staff them. I don't believe for a second that you thought there would 1,000 spots by now. So why are you pretending that is what you believe or that you were lied to because that is not what happened? This all smacks a little of bizarro world here.
3 aircraft a month starting in September. 3 aircraft per month, 4 months in 2013 times 7 crews per jet. What number do you come up with for that? They have already bid out 145 crews (290 pilots) for the 717 so far. Is that more or less than your math exercise I just gave you?
It's really tired but true, you can have your own opinion but not your own facts.
3 aircraft a month starting in September. 3 aircraft per month, 4 months in 2013 times 7 crews per jet. What number do you come up with for that? They have already bid out 145 crews (290 pilots) for the 717 so far. Is that more or less than your math exercise I just gave you?
It's really tired but true, you can have your own opinion but not your own facts.
07-04-2013 | 07:43 PM
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Is that the DFW commuter? ACL and I have both had the pleasure in times past. Made for a looooong flight to and from Manaus, Brazil for me...
07-04-2013 | 07:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
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This is a great case study. Alfaromeo was a high up MEC bureaucrat during "negotiations" of the TA. Now he states what I've bolded above. Here is part of the MEC letter urging us to vote for the TA. Read it for yourself and decide who was lying and spinning. And who is still lying and spinning to rehabilitate their awful reputation.
Carl
Carl
300 upgrades and more to come: Check that came true
Early retirement program just the same as the rest of the employees: Check that came true
Vacation any: Check
ADG: Check
Elimination of sick leave monitoring program: Check
Transfer of flying to mainline: Check, growth airplanes arriving in September, 220+ RJ-50 announced retirements, just as advertised. Regional capacity is already shrinking while mainline capacity is growing, Check, check, check
Set the pattern for bargaining: Check, United copy cats our agreement, American signs "me too" clause, US Airways along for the ride. The rest of the industry pay rates rise an average of 41% over the next 3 years to MATCH the Delta rates. That's right 41% increase on average just to match us. We reset the pattern for the whole industry and find me one professional negotiator that does not agree with that assessment.
Everything you highlighted in red has come true, so what are you talking about? Maybe you need to get back to the Narita Sports Bar and tell everyone how you are getting screwed by the Green Book guys now that the fences are down.
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