Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1440800)

Sure it was a harsh assessment, but it needs to be harsh. The APA conducted a clown show for 6+ years and only changed when their contract was rejected, they were hours away from a federal injunction that could have bankrupted the union, and their bankruptcy claim was flying out the window for good. How much closer to disaster did they have to come to change their path?

US Airways and USAPA have conducted their clown show for 7+ years now and their only hope of redemption is latching on to the APA that in turn latched onto the Delta/United contracts. They have failed in every objective they set and they have not delivered a penny of benefits to their pilots.

Following a deal like we signed last year, you always have the charlatans come crawling out from under their rocks proclaiming "Vote for me, I will give you everything you want." They have no plan, they have no work ethic, they only know how to craft a simple seductive message that all your dreams will be fulfilled if you simply follow their siren song.

The DPA lawyer is a master at this type of propaganda and deception. He ruined the mechanics union at Northwest and got kicked out of there. He led the Flight Attendants union at Northwest to near ruin and got kicked out of there. He led the US Airways pilots on a wild goose chase and took $10 million from them and finally got kicked out of there. Compare his list of former clients to current clients and you will see a guy that has basically been fired from just about every labor job he had. He got rich and they just got poorer and poorer. Now he has found a new set of chumps in the DPA that believe his crap because they want to believe his crap. Who wouldn't want to hear that all your troubles will simply disappear with a simple fix? That's is why you see all those ads for miracle diet pills on TV. Some people don't want to work out more and eat less, they would rather just take a pill and have their troubles disappear.

So if I make a harsh assessment then it's because my time in this profession has a limited life span. The time that should have been the heart of my career was spent in the bankruptcy era. Poor me. But rather than feel sorry for myself I actually tried to work to help pull the pilots out of this pit and back closer to where we need to be. Unlike the Carl's of this world who lack the courage to actually take real responsibility for anything I had to deliver the hard message that there are no easy solutions there is only work and work and more work and that improvements are cumulative and not immediate. That got us 50+% above bankruptcy rates within years of exiting.

So yes I make a harsh assessment. If I have to suffer through the APA/USAPA clown show for years and years I will sacrifice hundreds of thousands of dollars that I will never recover. So will thousands of other Delta pilots. If I want to take that seductive easy message and kick it in the teeth it's only because I have seen the serial failures and urge people to resist the siren song and continue to follow the path that has led to success.

You say I am on a high horse and I say prove my assessment wrong. Show me how the APA/USAPA clown show is leading the industry out the bankruptcy era and I will agree with you and change my stance. So far I have seen nothing but BS and bluster from the DPA crowd and their charlatan lawyer. Their ideas need to be countered. I really don't feel like sitting around for the next 6 to 8 years watching my dues money pay for the DPA lawyers boat while I wallow in the muck. That is their record and it should be exposed for what it is. Hucksterism.

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1441008)

And stick shaker.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1441024)

It's going to be difficult to prove something that did not have an opportunity to happen, but I believe all of those would have happened without C2012. But, C2012 leveraged those events to achieve gains in the short term which benefit us via:

• Increased pay
• Better RJ scope - (production balance in our favor)
• JV protections (which look to have had significant strategic importance as we deal with the Virgin deal and Japan issues)
• came up to industry standard on reserve ....

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1441014)

These guys were supposedly an experienced crew. I have no evidence whatsoever to support this, but I wonder if they were trying to salvage a high energy approach (as is typical with SFO) with speed brakes, and forgot to retract them?

Carl

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1441024)

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1441028)

The NTSB says they didn't call for go around until 1.5 seconds after the stick shaker?

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1441042)

You mean, "came down to industry standard...?"
- ALV + 15? unsat

How many reserves so far have flown to that?

- 7 short calls (after we just negotiated from 8 to 6)? YGBKM

How many are sitting 7 SCs. I haven't been on reserve for a few months, so I honestly don't know.

- Yes, reserve guarantee pay increased...but at what cost? A massive majority of my DAL buds would much rather fly much less and make a little less...not be beaten like rented mules when on reserve (and NOT by choice). Of course, most of them also voted for POS12...oops.

Wouldn't we all like to work less and make more? Of course I am sure the doughnut holes would deliver something much much better just because they would demand it, right?




- Let's not forget the massive concession of tinkering with the summer bid period length--not a reserve issue per se...but a huge kick in the jimmy for us.

Please educate me how that has been a kick in the jimmy other than having to remember that it doesn't begin and end on the same date as the month... I certainly don't see it as any kind of concession

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1441042)

Please educate me how that has been a kick in the jimmy other than having to remember that it doesn't begin and end on the same date as the month... I certainly don't see it as any kind of concession

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1440916)

Good point. Good post. How people don't get what you're saying after what alfa said is beyond me.

In real world discussion Usapa was on a different mission and had a different definition of what a win is. just like some define winning as a win for the pilots and others define winning as whatever is good for ALPAs, dALPAs and LMs reputation, not always the same thing or same game.