I guess this is as close to underboob as we can get now. :-(

Carl

 

Carl,

I am one of those pilots that filled out a DPA card at the start of the campaign but at this time I not plan to renew. I have numerous concerns with DPA. I will you give you my top 4 and I would like to hear your response. I like the idea of an independent union however DPA and those behind it scare me.

1. TC, through his emails blasts as the DPA founder and his past practices at NWA, does not instill a lot of confidence in me. His email blunders have been discussed in the past and I don't think we need to go into those. As far as my knowledge of his time at NWA, it is limited to his ALPA board postings and his log book write up crusade. He did not come across very well, he seemed to be a bitter disgruntled guy who wanted to poke his finger in the company's chest for any reason.

2. GM who is now continually posting on the ALPA board also comes across as someone I do not want to hitch my wagon too. His postings as well as a few other supporters on the ALPA board, guys listed as committee members for DPA, shows a lack of professionalism in my opinion. Before you ask I agree certain DALPA guys are just as bad. However if I was trying to unseat the incumbent union I would have discussions with my committee members to insure we provided a unified professional image.

3. This one I have tried to get answered but I have had no reply to emails I have sent to DPA. So until it answered in a negative I will assume it is fact. I have been told that some of the early supporters and financial contributors were the same former NWA guys who sued over the targeted DC fund.

4. These first three concerns as well as other observations of DPA supporters makes me believe we are going to go from DALPAs "constructive engagement" to a "my way or the highway" negotiating posture. I agree we need to move away from the current methodology but I think a hard line approach will fail with much worse implications then the current strategy.

As I said before I am in favor of Delta pilots keeping our money and using it for the betterment of our careers, unfortunately DPA has not convinced me they are the best path forward.

 

She's not interested. She monitors this frequency and knows all about the Gold Bond Powder.

 

Boys, she's married with 3 sons. She's taken.

 

I agree with ALPA on this one and I'd agree with DPA (read anyone) who said this. The first day they used the preliminary data off the box to issue "data" Tweets. Those Tweets made the news because accident investigation speak is boring. Three days of speculation based on partial data that had not been verified and what is probably a full year before the final report comes out.

These pilots have been "tried" in public before their "trial" This is the same NTSB that hung the NWA 188 pilots out to dry. 140 character sound bites do not tell a story and the "news" agencies carrying it aren't interested in the truth either. Heck! I read here that the Rolls Royce engines must have iced up again. I don't like when pilots speculate in public without facts like on this forum that I saw quoted in another blog and I sure as sh18 don't like it when the news drones do it. Many of us on here are no better than the talking heads on this one. Pilots on here were guessing about FLCH and other plausible errors even while the tweets were coming out and the radar plots showing a shallow descent.

I hope none of us has to go through anything like this, but we should all have the right to a clean investigation not tainted by partial data that hasn't been vetted. I'm terrified of the precedent the NTSB is setting for other countries, like the ones that try pilots for murder.

We should be upset that information is coming out in a way that is not complete, not that the factual information gets released, which it will in time and in context with a complete report.

 

^^ + 1

I agree that ALPA needs a good kick in the junk. But I'm not convinced that DPA will be any better. The emails are in some cases offensive (the abortion comparison.) I don't have complete faith in DPA - so no new card from me.

Baja.

 

+1

Agreed 100%

 

^^^ Stalker........

 

Here is most of an email I received from a friend. The writer is retired from a major US carrier. Very enlightening! Fits with what has been stated here.

"After I retired as a Standards Captain on the –400, I got a job as a simulator instructor working for Alteon (a Boeing subsidiary) at Asiana. When I first got there, I was shocked and surprised by the lack of basic piloting skills shown by most of the pilots. It is not a normal situation with normal progression from new hire, right seat, left seat taking a decade or two. One big difference is that ex-Military pilots are given super-seniority and progress to the left seat much faster. Compared to the US, they also upgrade fairly rapidly because of the phenomenal growth by all Asian air carriers. By the way, after about six months at Asiana, I was moved over to KAL and found them to be identical. The only difference was the color of the uniforms and airplanes. I worked in Korea for 5 long years and although I found most of the people to be very pleasant, it’s a minefield of a work environment ... for them and for us expats.

We expat instructors were forced upon them after the amount of fatal accidents (most of the them totally avoidable) over a decade began to be noticed by the outside world. They were basically given an ultimatum by the FAA, Transport Canada, and the EU to totally rebuild and rethink their training program or face being banned from the skies all over the world. They hired Boeing and Airbus to staff the training centers. KAL has one center and Asiana has another. When I was there (2003-2008) we had about 60 expats conducting training KAL and about 40 at Asiana. Most instructors were from the USA, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand with a few stuffed in from Europe and Asia. Boeing also operated training centers in Singapore and China so they did hire some instructors from there.

This solution has only been partially successful but still faces ingrained resistance from the Koreans. I lost track of the number of highly qualified instructors I worked with who were fired because they tried to enforce “normal” standards of performance. By normal standards, I would include being able to master basic tasks like successfully shoot a visual approach with 10 kt crosswind and the weather CAVOK. I am not kidding when I tell you that requiring them to shoot a visual approach struck fear in their hearts ... with good reason. Like this Asiana crew, it didnt’ compute that you needed to be a 1000’ AGL at 3 miles and your sink rate should be 600-800 Ft/Min. But, after 5 years, they finally nailed me. I still had to sign my name to their training and sometimes if I just couldn’t pass someone on a check, I had no choice but to fail them. I usually busted about 3-5 crews a year and the resistance against me built. I finally failed an extremely incompetent crew. I found out on my next monthly trip home that KAL was not going to renew my Visa. The crew I failed was given another check and continued a fly while talking about how unfair Captain Xxxxxx was.

Any of you Boeing glass-cockpit guys will know what I mean when I describe these events. I gave them a VOR approach with an 15 mile arc from the IAF. By the way, KAL dictated the profiles for all sessions and we just administered them. He requested two turns in holding at the IAF to get set up for the approach. When he finally got his nerve up, he requested “Radar Vectors” to final. He could have just said he was ready for the approach and I would have cleared him to the IAF and then “Cleared for the approach” and he could have selected “Exit Hold” and been on his way. He was already in LNAV/VNAV PATH. So, I gave him vectors to final with a 30 degree intercept. Of course, he failed to “Extend the FAF” and he couldn’t understand why it would not intercept the LNAV magenta line when he punched LNAV and VNAV. He made three approaches and missed approaches before he figured out that his active waypoint was “Hold at XYZ.” Every time he punched LNAV, it would try to go back to the IAF ... just like it was supposed to do. Since it was a check, I was not allowed (by their own rules) to offer him any help. That was just one of about half dozen major errors I documented in his UNSAT paperwork. He also failed to put in ANY aileron on takeoff with a 30-knot direct crosswind (again, the weather was dictated by KAL).

This Asiana SFO accident makes me sick and while I am surprised there are not more, I expect that there will be many more of the same type accidents in the future unless some drastic steps are taken. They are already required to hire a certain percentage of expats to try to ingrain more flying expertise in them, but more likely, they will eventually be fired too. One of the best trainees I ever had was a Korean/American (he grew up and went to school in the USA) who flew C-141’s in the USAF. When he got out, he moved back to Korea and got hired by KAL. I met him when I gave him some training and a check on the B-737 and of course, he breezed through the training. I give him annual PCs for a few years and he was always a good pilot. Then, he got involved with trying to start a pilots union and when they tired to enforce some sort of duty rigs on international flights, he was fired after being arrested and JAILED!

The Koreans are very very bright and smart so I was puzzled by their inability to fly an airplane well. They would show up on Day 1 of training (an hour before the scheduled briefing time, in a 3-piece suit, and shined shoes) with the entire contents of the FCOM and Flight Manual totally memorized. But, putting that information to actual use was many times impossible. Crosswind landings are also an unsolvable puzzle for most of them. I never did figure it out completely, but I think I did uncover a few clues. Here is my best guess. First off, their educational system emphasizes ROTE memorization from the first day of school as little kids. As you know, that is the lowest form of learning and they act like robots. They are also taught to NEVER challenge authority and in spite of the flight training heavily emphasizing CRM/CLR, it still exists either on the surface or very subtly. You just can’t change 3000 years of culture.

The other thing that I think plays an important role is the fact that there is virtually NO civil aircraft flying in Korea. It’s actually illegal to own a Cessna-152 and just go learn to fly. Ultra-lights and Powered Hang Gliders are Ok. I guess they don’t trust the people to not start WW III by flying 35 miles north of Inchon into North Korea. But, they don’t get the kids who grew up flying (and thinking for themselves) and hanging around airports. They do recruit some kids from college and send then to the US or Australia and get them their tickets. Generally, I had better experience with them than with the ex-Military pilots. This was a surprise to me as I spent years as a Naval Aviator flying fighters after getting my private in light airplanes. I would get experienced F-4, F-5, F-15, and F-16 pilots who were actually terrible pilots if they had to hand fly the airplane. What a shock!

Actually, this is a worldwide problem involving automation and the auto-flight concept. Take one of these new first officers that got his ratings in the US or Australia and came to KAL or Asiana with 225 flight hours. After takeoff, in accordance with their SOP, he calls for the autopilot to be engaged at 250’ after takeoff. How much actual flight time is that? Hardly one minute. Then he might fly for hours on the autopilot and finally disengage it (MAYBE?) below 800’ after the gear was down, flaps extended and on airspeed (autothrottle). Then he might bring it in to land. Again, how much real “flight time” or real experience did he get. Minutes! Of course, on the 777 or 747, it’s the same only they get more inflated logbooks.

So, when I hear that a 10,000 hour Korean captain was vectored in for a 17-mile final and cleared for a visual approach in CAVOK weather, it raises the hair on the back of my neck."

 

I know right. At least he did his research, which merely proves he kist wanted it more than we did.

That said, this has to be a stressful time for her. She really shouldn't be alone right now.