Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)

- - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyallnite (Post 1468504)

I haven't called in under this new program, haven't been sick. I just don't like the language or the concept. It is only part of the overall contract but its one of those things that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, like going below the white bug with no flaps. I have to say it was an even bigger reason for my no vote on the TA than the pay.

I understand the uneasy feeling. But IMO you can let that go. It seems the company is adjusting to the new policy. I have a feeling that they aren't too happy that they can't call whenever they want to, like they could under the old policy. There are now parameters that have to be met. There have been very few Good Faith calls, & DALPA is very aware of them. After talking with my Rep for over 1 hour, I'm confident that DALPA is engaging the company on the details of the new sick policy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cencal83406 (Post 1468509)

You guys didn't need to scope out more 76 seat aircraft to get rid of Pinnacle. Delta just stopped paying our company the agreed-upon sum and due to some other financial constraints we ended up in bankruptcy. From there it was an easy modification of our rock-solid 140 aircraft agreement.

Great. That just leaves Skywest and ExpressJet to take care of. That's only 150+ 50 seaters between them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1468099)

Gotcha... Just wanted to show that the AA rates get a "me too" average at DOS+36 and then 2%/yr after that (can't remember if they get to keep averaging in the next years until amendable).

Other unions piggy backing on ALPA again....

Yeah, but it was a deal struck in BK.....:rolleyes: you know... saying no all that time really paid off. Of course after how many years of stagnation? (and sliding backwards due to cost of living increases... I really wish some AMR guys would weigh in and tell us if they think it was worth the wait. If the vast majority do believe the loss of investment income was worth the punch in management's face, I will shut up, but I do not believe that anybody could honestly say it was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1468515)

Reps I've spoken with have not said that a deal is in the works at this time and are intent on enforcing the language as written. If the Company is not in compliance and the Company does not want to provide an equitable settlement/solution, then a grievance will be filed and that process will play out.

Reps I have spoken to say the same thing

Quote:

See above. The reps I've spoken with DO NOT see the WB order as a quid, your premise doesn't make sense.

Same again.

Quote:

If the 717's were coming anyway, that means there was no need for the Company to need a new pilot deal....

Yet the DAL pilots secured* 17.7%** raises over 3 years (almost completely front-loaded), on the shortest duration of our peers***.

I disagree. The 717's were coming anyway, but your union was still able to create leverage and improve the pay and QOL of its membership.

*Does not account for improvements in VAC/TRNG/RES pay, improved JV/CS scope, etc.
**Reduced the raise by 2% to account for PSP conversion.
***UAL 5yr - 3 months after DAL signing, AMR/LCC 7yr - upon merger closure, ALA 5yr - 1yr after DAL signing

Is what is and doesn't matter. I could give two hoots how someone voted in the "last" agreement. What matters is that everyone sees a very different tone and track from this MEC which had about a 50% turnover in Jan(admin) and March (Reps). What needs to happen is for everyone to be unified behind their bargaining agent; ALPA, for the next round of negotiations. Instead of looking for reasons to undercut your Association, we all need to start putting pressure and accountability on our Reps so they know that 1) they are held accountable and 2) We back them when they go to the table. If we want better results we cannot be a divided group.

What we are seeing out of DALPA is proof that more and more are communicating with their Reps and their Reps and Admin are using that input to close the communication circle. Isn't that what we asked for a few years ago? Aren't we seeing progress?

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1468371)

Not disagreeing. I said, Hindsight is 20/20. That is the way we see most of the PWA language and determine what needs improvement.

Yes three years with a one year cure is too long. A much shorter measurement period is needed to tighten the flex that is in the current system. No one seems to disagree with that.

When are we going to get people negotiating for us who don't think (bolded) this way? I'd prefer instead those working on the PWA who thought three steps ahead and continually asked themselves "How can we improve this and make it ironclad and what costs should we demand ahead of time if this part is not complied with?" Instead we seem to have the attitude stated above: Hindsight is 20/20; trust the other side; if it doesn't work out we'll fix it next time around; it's the best that could have done at the time, PERIOD. I doubt the company would be as forgiving if their "professional negotiators" allowed for so much trust, but so little verification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 1468380)

My guess is the wide body order that everyone has been talking about for months will be announced in conjunction with an agreement with ALPA allowing non compliance and touted as a win for the pilots. Just like the 717s(that everyone knew were coming anyway) were a reward for signing the contract.

Have you told your reps that this is unacceptable? I will certainly tell mine. I can live where we are right now, and if no widebodies come, I couldn't care less. It would be nice to have the opportunity to move up the food chain with the introduction of a few (unfortunately) higher paying seats, but if they don't materialize, I can live with that.

So the next question is: What is the remedy for the non compliance? More money? (Isn't that a sale of scope?) That's about all I can think of. What is your idea?

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyallnite (Post 1468434)

The men in white coats will be dispatched to the address you've provided in DBMS, so please update your information or we'll have to start following you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1468521)

I understand the uneasy feeling. But IMO you can let that go. It seems the company is adjusting to the new policy. I have a feeling that they aren't too happy that they can't call whenever they want to, like they could under the old policy. There are now parameters that have to be met. There have been very few Good Faith calls, & DALPA is very aware of them. After talking with my Rep for over 1 hour, I'm confident that DALPA is engaging the company on the details of the new sick policy.

What are those parameters? My reading of the PWA allows for the company to call "when individual circumstances exist." As far as I can tell that's undefined, so the CPO can call for verification when he chooses as long as they've been given a "good faith basis." Again, no parameters stated in the PWA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 1468380)

3B6 was a section...

oh nevermind, I guess we should subsidize aircraft purchases and lower ticket prices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1468371)

Not disagreeing. I said, Hindsight is 20/20. That is the way we see most of the PWA language and determine what needs improvement.

Yes three years with a one year cure is too long. A much shorter measurement period is needed to tighten the flex that is in the current system. No one seems to disagree with that.

I have not heard of negotiating on this until they are actually out of compliance. Time will tell. The IAAC and the MEC are watching it closely, and communicating it to the pilots. That is good.

Oh really? That's how it works?