Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iaflyer (Post 1568678)

Ha, you have not tried to "rest" during first break I take it - the 3rd is a virtual relaxation spa when compared to first break.

People have the windows open, everyone is eating, asking questions about the menu, the wine, the seat, the IFE... not to mention the hustle of the FAs back and forth to the mid-galley (on the ER). By breakfast they are a bit slower...

There is no mid galley on the ER.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdad (Post 1568667)

How bout if everybody just does it the old way and keeps their mouth shut?

Until you bust a clearance or something else happens. Then it gets complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1568688)

Until you bust a clearance or something else happens. Then it gets complicated.

+1
Great idea until the wrong people find out. It's an FAR, not a SD directive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudder (Post 1568640)

Isn't it measured from the midpoint of the FDP, not the flight itself?

Good point. Does the FDP include the :30 debrief time, after block-in?

Previously mentioned, but here is the direct link to the new safety video. I like it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaflyer (Post 1568678)

This may come as a shock to you, but I was not hired as a 777 Capt. Believe it or not, I have flown Int. F/O for many years, and 767Er Capt. as well, so I got to experience all three breaks.

I was usually able to sleep better on the first than the third, only because it was usually darker on the first, and I'd eat, get a nice full belly buzz on and pass out in a food coma.

The worst thing for me was when that bright sun would come up, blazing in, and some tool across the way would have his shade open, and it would be blasting right into my eyes. :eek: I guess you now have a curtain that will help keep that from happening, but back in MY DAY....:D

If I were king, those window shades would all be glued shut, all the time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1568657)

As far as I know there is nothing to preclude that. But as much complaining as I hear about getting "quality" rest on first or third break, I am not too sure this is likely. Possible I guess, but not very likely IMHO. I know I personally don't like to come from the back straight into the seat for landing (even with an hour to prepare) because it takes awhile to knock out the cobwebs. I'm just interested to know whether this particular regulation will be strictly adhered to, or whether "close enough for government work" will apply..... at any rate, the breaks will not be evenly divided anymore if it is.... :D

What you're struggling with, I think, is that it seems that FAR 117 just screwed the guy who wants to fly outbound to Europe AND wants second break. But don't kid yourself, and don't kid others. The breaks can be evenly distributed by shifting the FP break to third break. The PM job is not without importance, and having that person rested also matters. If you follow the law, and you follow the FOM, that seems to be the only logical way to do it (I'm willing to be proven wrong). There might be a slight contradiction in that I think the FOM might call for the FP to have the best rest, and we can look into how that plays into this.

But if you don't like to come back from third break to fly, imagine coming back from second break, and being uber-rested, as you play your role as PM and Captain, and exercise your command authority with a clear, sharp, rested mind, while your eager and presumably younger F/O is guided to land the aircraft under your watchful eyes, and insightful leadership.

So, there might be choices to be made, command decisions to be had: fly the outbound leg to Europe AND take 2nd break, AND get involved in all sorts of weird explanations to justify your... asymmetrical breaking system, OR shift the PM to third break and comply with the regs. In the latter case, you can fly it yourself, if you find you function well that way, or give it to someone else who does.

Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1568661)

True. You have to factor in the projected taxi-in time as well. Also, I would use the actual pick up time from the hotel, not the scheduled. This is all about safety, right, and the gubbamint is looking out for us. In making these calculations, I would think you use the actual pick up time, the actual push time, and the actual takeoff time. Everything else is projected time. Then make the calculations. I have a gouge sheet that I am working on that will hopefully simplify the process, but using apps anymore (until somebody writes one that takes all this into account) is out the window.....

The FDP does not start at pickup from the hotel - it starts at scheduled report time. 1:30 (intl, iirc) or 1:00 (domestic) prior to scheduled push. Transportation from the hotel is specifically excluded in the FAR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1568705)

Good point. Does the FDP include the :30 debrief time, after block-in?

No - the FDP ends at block in.

T,

Maybe this is what I was failing to consider:

On a flight where there is < 6:00 hours from TOC to TOD (I'm assuming :30 and 1:00), IOW block < 7:30, you cannot give everyone 2:00, so you cannot have all breaks the same.

OTOH, you can't comply with the requirement of have the PF rest 2 hours in the 2nd 1/2 of the FDP AND keep 2nd break, without some pretty gross imbalance, which I guess was your original point.