Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1475801)

FWIW, Fox rebroadcasts Al Jazaeera.

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 1476061)

"Don't stop him he's on a roll..."

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 1475858)

lBut let's say you are an idealist, and you think that your current representation is so broken you want no part of it.

Um, ok. So you are SO polarized in your thinking that you would trade practical gains in the process (participation in leadership, being on "the inside", and MAYBE even having a big voice in the direction) during the MULTI YEAR process of organzing a certification drive to hold to some fairly abstract ideals.

Fine, but what's that say about the eventual mindset if/when you are facing the company? Burn the house down because of absolute positions? Lack of the ability to think strategically to capture easy gains?

Honestly, why would anyone be interested in any group that can't even take advantage of a couple of easy wins like this?

Of course, the other reason someone may not go this path may be that they might not have the ability to pull something so easy off, and/or they might not have the numbers of people who think like they do.

Occam's Razor. You decide.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1476096)

Very well said.

I think you have the two obvious possibilities identified correctly. It's hard to tell whether the DPA backers can't, or just won't, play an influential role in the MEC right now. One thing is for sure: they aren't.

They claim to be about things that they haven't made any real effort to advance, for what, four, five years? This is an ego trip gone bad, a failed quest for power turned destructive. I wouldn't care, except they have many of the guys who would normally vote more assertively, and be present at meetings, tied up into whisper campaigns and character assassination, while waiting in vain for their "leadership" to act accordingly and influence actions.

They're usurping legitimate activism, and parking it somewhere on the dead-end road of their private fantasies. It's like watching the most motivated (but easily influenced) members of your family get recruited into a cult, while there is plenty to do at home, and Mom and Dad are getting a bit old and set in their ways.

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 1475858)

l

This is true, but there is more.

Let's say, for instance, that a lot of people are really crabby about what they see as sub-par pay increases in the TA, but their rep VOTED for the TA.

There is always the ability to recall your rep. It is easy, and a far, far easier way to send a message than doing a representational election.

Get 10 or 20 of your closest buds. Inform the Council Chairman that you request a special LEC meeting, with one thing on the agenda (they do NOT have the option of saying no). The meeting gets scheduled and you stack the room with you and your closest friends (shouldn't be hard, right? You say lots of people are mad). The agenda item passes, and it goes to a council wide vote.

Assuming a majority of the pilots in the base think they way you do, then it's hasta la vista. Then you get to elect someone who thinks like you (assuming that a majority of people also think like you).

You clip off a couple of reps like this to "send a message", and believe me, the message gets delivered VERY effectively.

It doesn't take a LOT of people to start this process, even if the ultimate recall is unsuccessful. But it DOES take a handful of people who understand the process (which isn't hard), and who are reasonably decent organizers who can motivate people to do slightly more than sign a card (IE show up at a LEC meeting...once, and then follow up with a vote or two).

This could have been done before the TA. Or it could have been after the TA when the apparent angst was at its highest. And it is an extremely quick process, often less than 60 days.

Not one rep was recalled. There wasn't even a WHISPER. Even if your ultimate goal is a certification election, at least you stem the tide of what you perceive as bad decision making until you can make that happen (call it the "time value of leadership").

But let's say you are an idealist, and you think that your current representation is so broken you want no part of it.

Um, ok. So you are SO polarized in your thinking that you would trade practical gains in the process (participation in leadership, being on "the inside", and MAYBE even having a big voice in the direction) during the MULTI YEAR process of organzing a certification drive to hold to some fairly abstract ideals.

Fine, but what's that say about the eventual mindset if/when you are facing the company? Burn the house down because of absolute positions? Lack of the ability to think strategically to capture easy gains?

Honestly, why would anyone be interested in any group that can't even take advantage of a couple of easy wins like this?

Of course, the other reason someone may not go this path may be that they might not have the ability to pull something so easy off, and/or they might not have the numbers of people who think like they do.

Occam's Razor. You decide.

Nu

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1476096)

Very well said.

It's hard to tell whether the DPA backers can't, or just won't, play an influential role in the MEC right now. One thing is for sure: they aren't.

Originally Posted by PilotFrog (Post 1476057)

No mention of the Korean Air 380 in Atlanta today?

Originally Posted by Opus (Post 1476117)

Any truth to the rumor that Boeing has come in and changed RA's mind on 330s/321s to B777 and B737-9s?