Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1435075)

whoops. what happened was I erased the LR and ER from the list and combined them but forgot to add the two types back together.
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I did the same on the others. I apologize, ignore that column it was just there for reference.

I'd change it but I'm not near the computer.

Originally Posted by PropPiedmont (Post 1435084)

Do you all figure in cargo capacity into pay, not just seat capacity?

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1435123)

I figure it was just a typo, and I do that daily! ;)

But seriously, what do you guys think about a buck a seat for Capt. pay rates? I mean, we are in the business of selling seat miles, right? RPM's, and load factors, and all that stuff, so why do we not use Management's Metrics to our advantage, to get better pay?

Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1435126)

Problem is the "me too" ideology. Other groups will ask for a dollar amount for each seat. Cargo guys will ask for x amount for each bag loaded. Etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1435065)

Thanks for the chart FTB, but we have 18 777's, not 8.

Take a quick look down the far right column, you'll see the aircraft with the most seats (747), has the lowest crew cost ($1.14) and as you look to the bottom of the list, you see the crew cost is more than double that, for the 717 and RJ's.

Over the past...20 (?) years, there has been a flattening of the total pay scales, no doubt. The top has stagnated, pay wise, as the smaller airframes have been catching up.

So what if ALPA just charged the company $1 per seat for the Capt. and .67 for the F/O, per hour, for every seat, every jet, across all fleets? Then the planes with the most seats would pay the most, obviously, as they do today, except where the rates are "upside down" as you point out with the Mad Dog, the 747-777 rates, and the A330-777 seating differential.

Can you 'reverse engineer' a similar table, to find what the hourly pay rates would be, per equipment, if all crew costs were the same, at $1.67/hour/seat? It would be interesting to see how much the 747 should be paid. Right now, it looks like a tie between the 767-400 and A330-200 which come in closest to $1.67/hr./seat


I never understood why the 747 is paid the same as the 777 in the first place...using the above info, and $1/hr/seat for Capt. the 376 seat 747's should pay the Capt. $376/hr, and the F/O $251.92/hr.

On a 14hr. flight, each pax ticket would be paying the 4 pilots $654, total, for the entire 14hr. flight.

I don't know what a typical coach ticket costs on a 14 hr. flight, but I'll bet it's well north of that.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1435123)

I figure it was just a typo, and I do that daily! ;)

But seriously, what do you guys think about a buck a seat for Capt. pay rates? I mean, we are in the business of selling seat miles, right? RPM's, and load factors, and all that stuff, so why do we not use Management's Metrics to our advantage, to get better pay?

Originally Posted by Ed Harley (Post 1435138)

Because the DC9 and 717 drivers would get screwed. And I think most pilots that have flown either would argue that they work twice as hard on a 5 day trip as a 747 crew.

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1435123)

I figure it was just a typo, and I do that daily! ;)

But seriously, what do you guys think about a buck a seat for Capt. pay rates?,,,,,

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1434760)

The contract will have to be opened Einstein. There is no language currently that adressess a JV with VA. Therefore nothing to grieve at this point. That language will have to be created. That requires opening the contract. Leverage.