Hey T. I'm all for LBP. How do you propose we change to this way of paying pilots without any pilots taking a paycut? And at what longevity you propose we stop 12? 25? 30? Pilots are not going to want to change to this unless it's beneficial to all of them, and neither will Delta.

[QUOTE=forgot to bid;1434944]The MD-90 in DCA:
Delta plane stuck in mud at Reagan National Airport | 11alive.com

We saw this in DCA that day. Those MD90's have a crazy long wheel base. Surprised this doesn't happen more often.

Nothing is magical about 12 years. I used that because it is top of our pay. If we go out of business and we all have to start over, we shouldn't have to start over pay wise from scratch. It is a bull**** pay system that gives start-ups like Virgin America and Jetblue a huge labor cost advantage for years.

Until we get a contract that passes by more than 64% during RECORD profits, or we hire, or we grow, why don't you set your standards a but higher for the NC.



Cheers
George[/QUOTE]

For the LBP argument, I decided to make a table:

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3d1a2cc5.png

Love,
FTB

I know there is a weighted system on seating, speed, range, beauty, cockpit setup, prestige, engine size and Boeing-iness :D that determines pay.

But in defense of the 88 guys, the 90 pays $18 less than the same sized 738 and $6 less than a A320 that seats 10 fewer and $6 less than a A319 that seats 34 fewer and $18 less than a 737-700 that seats 36 fewer.

And yes the A330 does pay less $23 less than the 777 that seats 29 fewer.

But if you take into account the previous weighting list, you clearly see why a MickeyD product goes below an Airbus that goes a Boeing. :)

Survey. Only needs to benefit 51%.

Thanks for the chart FTB, but we have 18 777's, not 8.

Take a quick look down the far right column, you'll see the aircraft with the most seats (747), has the lowest crew cost ($1.14) and as you look to the bottom of the list, you see the crew cost is more than double that, for the 717 and RJ's.

Over the past...20 (?) years, there has been a flattening of the total pay scales, no doubt. The top has stagnated, pay wise, as the smaller airframes have been catching up.

So what if ALPA just charged the company $1 per seat for the Capt. and .67 for the F/O, per hour, for every seat, every jet, across all fleets? Then the planes with the most seats would pay the most, obviously, as they do today, except where the rates are "upside down" as you point out with the Mad Dog, the 747-777 rates, and the A330-777 seating differential.

Can you 'reverse engineer' a similar table, to find what the hourly pay rates would be, per equipment, if all crew costs were the same, at $1.67/hour/seat? It would be interesting to see how much the 747 should be paid. Right now, it looks like a tie between the 767-400 and A330-200 which come in closest to $1.67/hr./seat


I never understood why the 747 is paid the same as the 777 in the first place...using the above info, and $1/hr/seat for Capt. the 376 seat 747's should pay the Capt. $376/hr, and the F/O $251.92/hr.

On a 14hr. flight, each pax ticket would be paying the 4 pilots $654, total, for the entire 14hr. flight.

I don't know what a typical coach ticket costs on a 14 hr. flight, but I'll bet it's well north of that.

George,

Thank you for posting that. It's very interesting...

It would appear that our PWA already covers the Virgin Atlantic joint ownership situation. Mr. Anderson knew of this contract, and it's terms, prior to the purchase of 49% of Virgin.

So what is there to negotiate? It's already there in black and white.

What am I missing?

whoops. what happened was I erased the LR and ER from the list and combined them but forgot to add the two types back together.
.

I did the same on the others. I apologize, ignore that column it was just there for reference.

I'd change it but I'm not near the computer.