Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1441197)

Exactly. Clicking it all off just to polish skills isn't always the best idea. 4 mile wide airways and +/- a few hundred feet all day are long, long gone. We're in the age of "hey no problem with us" from ATC and here comes an auto generated deviation for almost nothing. And nextgen isn't even here yet. There are times to click stuff off. Sometimes all of it, either for operational necessity or good old fashioned practice. But creating and then doubling the tunnel vision you just created while simultaneously increasing workload doesn't mesh well with the plus/minus nothing operating environment that's closing in around us. When it comes to the magic, sometimes more is less. The accident that kicked this discussion off in the first place could end up being a case of clicking everything off. A more assertive PM that said a lot more a lot sooner will save the day a million times more than a culture of hand flying just to hand fly.

I just hope we don't get barraged with memos and edicts from on high because of this, either way.

gunships example was exactly when not to click it off- that was not my point.

There are times to do so, and times to not- I was not saying handfly the plane down from 10k every time. It's rare for me to do so except on a slam dunk redeye on the downwind in ATL where it's just easier to turn it all off.

What's it like to fly the A320 with the autopilot off:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...84572530_n.jpg

The 777

http://richardmassage.tempwebpage.co...sage_thumb.jpg

And the MD-88... which is the same as the MD-90 with it on:

http://www.scifighting.com/wp-conten...Dos-Santos.jpg

and trust me. I went easy on the pic there. how that is called a sport is beyond me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1441119)

In FLCH for descent the AT mode goes to HOLD upon reaching idle. That's a big gotcha for every plane with AT that I've flown... know if you're in fixed thrust or variable thrust.

NW had an airbus crew do the similar with the airbus equivalent of FLCH years back. They were below 100 feet when they entered the stall regime (slow and below path) so alpha floor protection didn't kick in (remember the tolouse lawnmower?), subsqeuently they smacked the airplane pretty dang hard into the ground.

Upon further reading and verification from 777 types, "autothrottle wakeup," which is nearly identical to "alpha floor" on the airbus, is disabled below 100 RA just like on the airbus.

I'd be willing to bet this is another incident like the airbus lawnmower and NW incident previously described.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1441199)

Strange how the 88 has seemingly strayed off the normal DL course since I was there.

VNAV. You said VNAV right? You evidently turned it off. I'll turn it back on for you. :D

Being trilingual on VNAV, IAS/VS and hand flying is the way to go. There was probably a time that IAS/VS and hand flying were all some wanted to know and were willing to know. Now we all know VNAV to the FAF too. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad thing. But 1 over the other by a country mile is not a good thing and hopefully the emphasis will be in all three being loved equally and working together like a well oiled machine.

Well oiled machine = FTB, cutting the grass, without a shirt and using tanning oil. Or in its absence canola oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1441199)

Statistically, the Airbus 320 fleet hand flies the lowest of all the fleets. I guess that's because we're never actually in control of what the airplane does. :eek:

You have a point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1441199)

I also treat a line check/fed ride virtually the same as every flight. Keep the ball in bounds and they have no room to question you. If they do, question them right back respectfully. Enjoy the watching the backpeddle.

The A I was flying with just today said the same thing. He had a LCA being checked by the FAA checking him. He brought up the automation policy and justifying why he reduced the automation on his arrival and approach and he won an argument on the debrief.

What's in the books is good. Delta's automation policy is a good one... and a good one to remember. So is what VOL 1 actually says about when you should use VNAV. The books have it right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1441208)

The A I was flying with just today said the same thing. He had a LCA being checked by the FAA checking him. He brought up the automation policy and justifying why he reduced the automation on his arrival and approach and he won an argument on the debrief. Put it that way.

What's in the books is good. Delta's automation policy is a good one... and a good one to remember. So is what VOL 1 actually says about when you should use VNAV. Notice I didn't say must, just should.

Exactly. :)

The only thing that changes is the amount of angry birds that may occur.

Just heard the CA only had 43 hours in type and it was his first time into SFO. What was the copilot doing????????

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1441213)

Just heard the CA only had 43 hours in type and it was his first time into SFO. What was the copilot doing????????

Was the copilot a LCA? Or just a copilot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzpat (Post 1441213)

Just heard the CA only had 43 hours in type and it was his first time into SFO. What was the copilot doing????????

He was with an LCA and was still on OE. All those eyes looking on in the cockpit watching it happen...

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1441214)

Was the copilot a LCA? Or just a copilot?

Well, take this with a huge grain of salt, it was CNN...but they said it was his first time flying as a qualified 777 CA and his first trip into SFO. I'm guessing he had a normal crew, no LCA, but that's total speculation. I can't imagine a LCA would let it deteriorate that badly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1441215)

He was with an LCA and was still on OE. All those eyes looking on in the cockpit watching it happen...

What an absolute cluster.