Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-17-2013 | 04:10 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: 765-A
OK, I will.
Yes, the B scale went away and we did get a pay raise. Everyone remembers that. What nobody seems to remember is that those were part of the Pre-Strike contract.
The big sticking point in that 1998 contract was NEWCO. The company wanted to "be able to create" a subsidiary to outsource flying (sound familiar?) and we didn't want to let them. The strike ultimately ended after a few weeks on a Wednesday with the NEWCO provision approved. The following Monday morning NWA announced the creation of Compass.
As a B-scale, still-on-probation DC-9 FO, I followed all of this with great interest. I technically wasn't even guaranteed a job after it was over, though the union did promise to bring everyone back. The only material difference between the pre- and post-strike contracts was a small pay raise above the pre-strike figure. I don't remember the exact number for me (it was around $1), but I do remember calculating it would take 3 years for that raise to recoup the salary I lost during the strike.
There is a lot of ego and testosterone tied to that strike even today. "We showed them who was boss!" Unfortunately, I have to disagree. All of the material gains in that contract were there pre-strike. And there were quite a few of those; the Negotiating Committee did a far better job than we recently saw here.
The strike made sense to me going into it; it left me scratching my head after it was over. We got a 3-years-to-recovery pay raise and the company got outsourcing when all was said and done. The strike itself accomplished very little, in my humble opinion.
Yes, the B scale went away and we did get a pay raise. Everyone remembers that. What nobody seems to remember is that those were part of the Pre-Strike contract.
The big sticking point in that 1998 contract was NEWCO. The company wanted to "be able to create" a subsidiary to outsource flying (sound familiar?) and we didn't want to let them. The strike ultimately ended after a few weeks on a Wednesday with the NEWCO provision approved. The following Monday morning NWA announced the creation of Compass.
As a B-scale, still-on-probation DC-9 FO, I followed all of this with great interest. I technically wasn't even guaranteed a job after it was over, though the union did promise to bring everyone back. The only material difference between the pre- and post-strike contracts was a small pay raise above the pre-strike figure. I don't remember the exact number for me (it was around $1), but I do remember calculating it would take 3 years for that raise to recoup the salary I lost during the strike.
There is a lot of ego and testosterone tied to that strike even today. "We showed them who was boss!" Unfortunately, I have to disagree. All of the material gains in that contract were there pre-strike. And there were quite a few of those; the Negotiating Committee did a far better job than we recently saw here.
The strike made sense to me going into it; it left me scratching my head after it was over. We got a 3-years-to-recovery pay raise and the company got outsourcing when all was said and done. The strike itself accomplished very little, in my humble opinion.
I don't remember NewCo being a player until the concessionary contract of the mid 2000's.
As far as your claim that the pre-strike agreement included an agreement get rid of the B-scale, I distinctly remember, being in DTW and checking the code-a-phone (??) just prior to the strike deadline (midnight). The offer I remember equated to a pay raise for me, as it reduced the length of time on B-scale, but it did not completely remove it.
We were on strike 15 days and I don't remember coming across anyone who thought we shouldn't have done it, or that it wasn't worth it. Are we talking about the same strike?
Last edited by newKnow; 11-17-2013 at 04:21 PM.
11-17-2013 | 04:21 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2012
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OK, I will.
Yes, the B scale went away and we did get a pay raise. Everyone remembers that. What nobody seems to remember is that those were part of the Pre-Strike contract.
The big sticking point in that 1998 contract was NEWCO. The company wanted to "be able to create" a subsidiary to outsource flying (sound familiar?) and we didn't want to let them. The strike ultimately ended after a few weeks on a Wednesday with the NEWCO provision approved. The following Monday morning NWA announced the creation of Compass.
As a B-scale, still-on-probation DC-9 FO, I followed all of this with great interest. I technically wasn't even guaranteed a job after it was over, though the union did promise to bring everyone back. The only material difference between the pre- and post-strike contracts was a small pay raise above the pre-strike figure. I don't remember the exact number for me (it was around $1), but I do remember calculating it would take 3 years for that raise to recoup the salary I lost during the strike.
There is a lot of ego and testosterone tied to that strike even today. "We showed them who was boss!" Unfortunately, I have to disagree. All of the material gains in that contract were there pre-strike. And there were quite a few of those; the Negotiating Committee did a far better job than we recently saw here.
The strike made sense to me going into it; it left me scratching my head after it was over. We got a 3-years-to-recovery pay raise and the company got outsourcing when all was said and done. The strike itself accomplished very little, in my humble opinion.
Yes, the B scale went away and we did get a pay raise. Everyone remembers that. What nobody seems to remember is that those were part of the Pre-Strike contract.
The big sticking point in that 1998 contract was NEWCO. The company wanted to "be able to create" a subsidiary to outsource flying (sound familiar?) and we didn't want to let them. The strike ultimately ended after a few weeks on a Wednesday with the NEWCO provision approved. The following Monday morning NWA announced the creation of Compass.
As a B-scale, still-on-probation DC-9 FO, I followed all of this with great interest. I technically wasn't even guaranteed a job after it was over, though the union did promise to bring everyone back. The only material difference between the pre- and post-strike contracts was a small pay raise above the pre-strike figure. I don't remember the exact number for me (it was around $1), but I do remember calculating it would take 3 years for that raise to recoup the salary I lost during the strike.
There is a lot of ego and testosterone tied to that strike even today. "We showed them who was boss!" Unfortunately, I have to disagree. All of the material gains in that contract were there pre-strike. And there were quite a few of those; the Negotiating Committee did a far better job than we recently saw here.
The strike made sense to me going into it; it left me scratching my head after it was over. We got a 3-years-to-recovery pay raise and the company got outsourcing when all was said and done. The strike itself accomplished very little, in my humble opinion.
Compass came about/was created due to the post 9-11 bankruptcy contract.
You may want to revisit your timeline.
From newknow:
I don't mind correction, but I've got to say, that's not how I remember it at all. You know we are talking about the 1998 strike, right?
11-17-2013 | 04:28 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2005
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11-17-2013 | 04:38 PM
ATL A320 B
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: No longer MEM or 9, but still a guy.
John Dasburg was still CEO of NWA when I was hired in early 2000. He left shortly after that...
11-17-2013 | 04:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
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From: A-320/A
If memory serves, the '98 strike raised the end-of-contract 12 year CA pay on the DC-9 up to $197/hr (did not affect me at the time). And, we had a 65% FAE pension to boot, which was funded at 102% of what was the max. allowed under IRS rules. (was hoping that this would one day affect me). Also, if memory serves, didn't management attempt to pre-fund either 1999 or 2000 contributions, but was dis-allowed due to too-favorable tax savings for the Company. AND, as was quoted earlier, the 'B' fund elimination did NOT affect 90% + of the pilot group, but we, as a group, stood up for that minority. THAT, in my opinion, is what the defining moniker on the ALPA pin constitutes as "Unity". I was very glad we did not agree to simply what the "50% + 1" would have settled for, and as a pilot group, we were all very well served by C1998. So, please include me in the group who "thinks it was worth it".
Respectfully
Respectfully
11-17-2013 | 04:44 PM
ATL A320 B
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 238
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From: No longer MEM or 9, but still a guy.
The contract that came out of the '98 strike did "sunset" the B scale, but it took until mid 2001 for it to actually go away. I was hired in 2000 and spent my first 6 months after probation on B scale.
11-17-2013 | 04:58 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
If memory serves, the '98 strike raised the end-of-contract 12 year CA pay on the DC-9 up to $197/hr (did not affect me at the time). And, we had a 65% FAE pension to boot, which was funded at 102% of what was the max. allowed under IRS rules. (was hoping that this would one day affect me). Also, if memory serves, didn't management attempt to pre-fund either 1999 or 2000 contributions, but was dis-allowed due to too-favorable tax savings for the Company. AND, as was quoted earlier, the 'B' fund elimination did NOT affect 90% + of the pilot group, but we, as a group, stood up for that minority. THAT, in my opinion, is what the defining moniker on the ALPA pin constitutes as "Unity". I was very glad we did not agree to simply what the "50% + 1" would have settled for, and as a pilot group, we were all very well served by C1998. So, please include me in the group who "thinks it was worth it".
Respectfully
Respectfully
Carl
11-17-2013 | 05:07 PM
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
Obviously memory does not serve any of us well, me included. When I think back to C2000 and the post 9/11 days, it all kind of blends together. One thing I do remember is that Leo and Fred were idiots lacking in ethics.
Anyone else remember BK-proof retirements and retention bonus for the worthy few. Retention bonuses by the way, paid to execs who left anyway.
Scoop
Anyone else remember BK-proof retirements and retention bonus for the worthy few. Retention bonuses by the way, paid to execs who left anyway.
Scoop
11-17-2013 | 05:08 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
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From: 737 ATL
December schedules are out.
Looks like another traditional Check Essential Yuletide celebration.
Christmas at the airport hotel.
Looks like another traditional Check Essential Yuletide celebration.
Christmas at the airport hotel.
11-17-2013 | 05:15 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
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From: 737 ATL
But wait ---
Flt Ops is giving Mrs. Check Essential an S2B pass.
Hmmm....
Flt Ops is giving Mrs. Check Essential an S2B pass.
Hmmm....
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