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Originally Posted by Dash8widget
(Post 1542978)
The original question was, can you work a 4 day trip followed by a 3 day trip and not have a 30 hour break somewhere in the middle? The answer is yes, it is possible. You can work 7 flight duty periods in 7 days without a 30 hour break. Sure, it would require a late report on day 1 and an early release on day 7 (and it would need to be under 60 total flight duty period hours), but it's is possible. Under the old rules it would not be legal due to the 24 off in 7 calendar days requirement. That's all I was trying say. :)
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1542940)
Most of the examples given could have also been flown under the old FAR's. If the trips were international you could fly an unlimited amount of days. Domestically you could probably fly what he posted legally. Trips with 30 hour layovers tend to have a lot of credit so you could easily be under 30. Toss in trips with dh legs and I suspect you would see it possible more often under the old FAR then the new one.
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From the ALPA Guide: "Before beginning any reserve or FDP assignment, the flightcrew member must have received a 30
consecutive-hour rest within the past 168 consecutive hours that precedes the beginning of the FDP." The key: this is a look back rule. By the end of that last FDP you may be able to look back 168hrs and not see 30 consecutive hours rest -- and still be legal. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1542983)
I thought under part 121 your 24/7 break could be a 24 hour layover, right? So technically, you could work 7 days in a row under the old rules?
Hypothetical 7 day trip: Day 1: report 1900, 5 hour FDP, 14 hour layover Day 2: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover Day 3: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover Day 4: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover Day 5: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover Day 6: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover Day 7: 5 hour FDP. Block in at 1300 138 hours from report to block in. 60 total FDP hours. No 30 hour breaks, no 24 hour breaks. At 1300 on day 7 you still had 30 hours off in the previous 168. Legal under 117. Not legal under current FAR's Yes, it's pushed right at the limit. No, we would probably never actually see a trip like this (never say never?). But a hypothetical trip like this is a good way to get a feel for what is possible under the new rules. |
Originally Posted by Dash8widget
(Post 1542978)
The original question was, can you work a 4 day trip followed by a 3 day trip and not have a 30 hour break somewhere in the middle? The answer is yes, it is possible. You can work 7 flight duty periods in 7 days without a 30 hour break. Sure, it would require a late report on day 1 and an early release on day 7 (and it would need to be under 60 total flight duty period hours), but it's is possible. Under the old rules it would not be legal due to the 24 off in 7 calendar days requirement. That's all I was trying say. :)
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Originally Posted by Dash8widget
(Post 1543014)
Well sure, old rules, new rules - as long as they kept giving you the necessary breaks, you could be at work indefinitely, I guess.
Hypothetical 7 day trip: Day 1: report 1900, 5 hour FDP, 14 hour layover Day 2: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover Day 3: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover Day 4: 10 hour FDP, 14 hour layover Day 5: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover Day 6: 10 hour FDP, 11 hour layover Day 7: 5 hour FDP. Block in at 1300 138 hours from report to block in. 60 total FDP hours. No 30 hour breaks, no 24 hour breaks. At 1300 on day 7 you still had 30 hours off in the previous 168. Legal under 117. Not legal under current FAR's Yes, it's pushed right at the limit. No, we would probably never actually see a trip like this (never say never?). But a hypothetical trip like this is a good way to get a feel for what is possible under the new rules. Now I see what you were getting at. Due to the 168 hour rolling window the "30 hour break" precedes working 7 calendar days in a row with no intervening break. I agree, not a pretty picture, and hard to believe that this is under the new "scientifically based" rules. Just another example of "the Man keeping us down." :eek: Scoop |
I just downloaded the ALPA 117 app, just in case. (Never know when a crew-mate may need some help.) Took all of two minutes.
iPhone-->App Store..search ALPA--> scroll over and install. "So easy, even a Captain can do it!" |
I just downloaded the ALPA 117 app, just in case. (Never know when a crew-mate may need some help.) Took all of two minutes.
iPhone-->App Store..search ALPA--> scroll over and install. "So easy, even a Captain can do it!" :) |
So easy a Captain can do it... twice ;)
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
(Post 1543010)
From the ALPA Guide: "Before beginning any reserve or FDP assignment, the flightcrew member must have received a 30
consecutive-hour rest within the past 168 consecutive hours that precedes the beginning of the FDP." The key: this is a look back rule. By the end of that last FDP you may be able to look back 168hrs and not see 30 consecutive hours rest -- and still be legal. |
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