Originally Posted by AtlCSIP (Post 1648208)

Not good. Not good at all.

Originally Posted by Roadkill (Post 1648183)

I don't think this simplification is true, sailing. Pilot positions are based on CREDIT HOURS. Credit hours do NOT EQUAL block hours... based on them sure, but always more. And the company's goal is to reduce the disparity so that credit hours = block hours (no extra credit). Which means more productivity for us and more work for the same pay.
When a pilot's schedule is built, it is "full" at a certain CREDIT. When a pilot tries to pick up more flying, it is limited by CREDIT. This results in that pilot being unusable by company and another one must be hired and flown to handle the remaining block the first pilot didn't actually fly but got capped out by similar credit.

This entire discussion revolves around the company's ability to reduce CREDIT hours for the same block hours, perhaps in a couple ways. Less synthetic credit for a 30 hour layover; and maybe flying stuff for PAY NO CREDIT. Allowing the company to reduce credit, while still flying the same actual flights (block) results in fewer pilots and less $$ spent on them by Delta. Bad.

Every time you insist that manning is based on block hours, you lose sight of the entire crux of this costing decision, and where the nut-cutting of whether this is better for us or the company will happen; and you mislead the thought process of other pilots away from "truth".

In this case, I don't think you're probably doing it on purpose, I think you're just so used to saying that incorrect mantra you're maybe missing the critical piece here.

If Delta can fly 100 block hours on certain CREDIT COSTLY routes for say 200 credit hours currently, but by adding split duty and CDOs and some targeted 3 man ops they can operate those routes for a hard-time block of 150, then it's a win for them, and a LOSS FOR US.

Didn't throw in any example, just want you to think on and consider the credit vs. block argument and that Delta's continuing mission is always to reduce credit to equal block. I'm following your posts on this, much useful info, hoping you'll factor this critical and driving goal of Delta into your considerations.
Thx

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1647991)

Most of those went away with 117 back in January when the hours went to 9. They only made sense as already discussed in markets with very limited service. Layovers will always be cheaper unless the crew has to be left there more then a day.
In addition the company does not generally use the 17 757's with BE seats in tourist markets. I don't overall see this as much of a issue.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano (Post 1648212)

In other news ...

Airlines: Do Labor Relations Matter? - Stocks To Watch - Barrons.com

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude (Post 1648219)

It's a one for one route trade resulting in more block hours for Delta pilots(LAX-LHR is longer than ATL-LHR). So, what's not good?

Originally Posted by AtlCSIP (Post 1648208)

Not good. Not good at all.

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1648138)

Anyone at the meeting wanna update us?

I'm with flyallnite, where's the language?
(My guess is after the up, if up...but before the memory rat discussion.)

Originally Posted by Spudhauler (Post 1648226)

Sailing, this doesn't make any sense. The company wouldn't want it if it didn't benefit them. I'm tired of the old "we don't see any issues" mantra from ALPA, like sick leave verification, followed by unintended consequences biting us in the butt. We have to stop the cycle of voting yes on something without really knowing what it means only to find out later that it sucks.

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1648229)

Who knows man?
I used to love reading this thread but now it seems EVERY, and I do mean every change to anything we do as a company is met by a chorus of middle school girls screaming, "oh maaa gaaawd! they di'dunt!"

I can hear the black helicopters hovering this thread constantly these days.

Seems like a given, the LA thing, now that we have a JV and own wait what is it again? Ah yes, 49% of the company.

You older guys and '07-10 hire guys with paranoia/chip on shoulder/nostalgia problems need to live in the now. (full disclosure: I'm an 07 hire)

Not everything our company does is an Orwellian plot to get less pilots on property, steal from us, kick your dog or steal your wife. Take things as they are and not as you think they would have been with Leo at the helm or others.

You will live longer, and by God probably spend less time on message boards.

New and different flying is a good thing for us. Especially when the block hour change is nearly double for Delta guys. Period. End of story, no black helicopters coming to take your seats on the 330 or ER in ATL.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1648177)

my entire month of april was 13.30 3 days.