As I understand it, the TA requires Delta to negotiate with us in order to augment on an aircraft that does not currently have an approved rest seat in the PWA. As none of our current domestic aircraft First Class seats recline anywhere close to 40 degrees, I do not believe that they would qualify as a Class 3 rest facility under the FARs.

It's being kept in a #2 mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnall's back porch. (I know there's at least one guy here who should get that reference.) :)

And how is it that you are so wise in the disparate ways of analysis by the two parties, my liege?

I believe the MEC will decide that this week. Presumably, you've given your input to your rep by now?

I got it.....

For those that don't


I wanna thank you for bringing that up..:mad: now I'm stuck watching Carson clips on youtube.

Good question. I would hate to think it had anything to do with our silver-tongues reps convincing them that it's in their best interest. :eek:

I find it ironic that those who insist that we repeatedly remind RA of how much we've given, how successful Delta is now, and how it would be the right thing to do to restore some of our investment in the company (a position with which I agree fully) now find it unbelievable that our reps have actually managed to make some small gains. :confused:

In a more direct answer to your question, it may be that the issue with long call reserve acknowledgement, which has arguably been held at bay somewhat by ALPA, could well prove to be a very thorny issue for Delta to handle should there be no agreement.

Other than that, I'll certainly look to my reps for more info on the costing.

A reference for a reference... I tip my hat!

Hidden away with our last contract surveys.......:rolleyes:

I understand and I completely get that the cost per the trip would be more expensive with 3 pilots. I don't dispute that on a leg by leg basis. But I think we would need fewer Captains in the month to cover the trips under the TA then we do now.

Now forgive me, I went off and built a 5th line in the first "present way" so I didn't mean for it to look like a real PBS award. I just had to move some stuff around. See notes below.

[Note, this is as big as I could get it, you need CTRL+ and CTRL- to zoom in and out on your browser, if you have Apple, I have no idea how your overly expensive computer works ;)]
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc372a7a9.png

Now I am going to put my management hat on, which is appropriate, when I log onto Deltanet it goes to... Corporate. So now I have gravitas.

The way I see it, if I had to cover 1 single ATL-SFO-ATL trip where the airplane flew out and then flew right back 1 hour later, I would have 290 hours of block to cover.

But if I am constrained by the fact that under the PWA I cannot return those pilots (and let's say I have no other flights that day) then I have to give them a 24 hour overnight and make this a 3 day trip worth 13.30. By my estimation I would need 5 As and 5 Bs to cover it for the month and I still have a lot of open time to cover. If the contract allowed me to pay straight time on those open time trips this whole thing costs be $144K before overnight expenses.

If I had to GS those open time trips I pay out $187K.

If I could make them bring it right back then it's a turn worth 10.30. Now the trick is I have to pay for a 3rd FO. But under this scenario I only need 4 As and 8 Bs and the good thing is from my management hat on perspective I only have 1 trip in open time.

Cost to me $160K. If I GS that one trip $170K.

So it's cheaper to run it under the PWA and I only need 10 pilots under the PWA. Under the TA I would need 12 pilots and it costs more. That's what seems like the win.

Except that's 1 fewer A. Multiply this over 7 routes per day with the same constraints and now I go from needing 40 As under the PWA to 29 As under the TA, or 80 PWA pilots vs 87 TA pilots. Is that a win? Put everything to the side, what if that was what was offered, 8% growth in total pilots but 27% loss in As, is what a win? I could see it argued either way.

Now multiply this out and yeah, it's 12% more expensive to run it with the TA than PWA and the PWA has hotel costs and you saved on costs. But to me we've lost Captain positions. I'm not sure if that's a win but I'm open to changing my mind that it's a win if the TA is very restrictive but even then, it's eh on this subject. Although that TA schedule looks appetizing.

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Also, I do wonder if the modification to get a 40 degrees of pitch and a spongebob in would be easier than losing 2 FC seats.