Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

I disagree. After the company pushed us into an arbitration and spent all that money to ultimately came out as a win from the arbitrator for them? They won that arbitration and got exactly what they wanted. If it was better financially for them to not have a pilot in a BE seat, then they would be putting the ER pilots below deck toot sweet so they could sell that seat. That isn't happening, nor do I expect them to ever do it unless forced to do so. This is a situation where they won and then we took some leverage and turned the tables on them to get it back. While I completely understand that the MCRC is not what was on the 330 before, it is better than a BE seat and an improvement.

Agree to disagree

forgot to bid

05-21-2014 02:11 AM

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Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1647911)

I'm still waiting to see a domestic 757 or 737 with a class 3 rest facility to fly said rotation legally.:confused:

Have you asked your rep if the dinner/movie flights will be affected and why/why not?

Okay, having not seen the language in our contract does the TA require a Class 1 to do non Ocean crossing augmented ops or just Class 3?

Because the way I read it you could use any of our transcon type jets (assuming they go beyond 40 degrees) on an augmented crew and there wouldn't even be a requirement for a privacy curtain (per ALPA's guide) and at the worst you add a spongebob.

Quote:

FAR 117.3 Rest facility

Quote:

means a bunk or seat accommodation installed in an aircraft that provides a flightcrew member with a sleep opportunity.

(1) Class 1 rest facility means a bunk or other surface that allows for a flat sleeping position and is located separate from both the flight deck and passenger cabin in an area that is temperature-controlled, allows the flightcrew member to control light, and provides isolation from noise and disturbance.

(2) Class 2 rest facility means a seat in an aircraft cabin that allows for a flat or near flat sleeping position; is separated from passengers by a minimum of a curtain to provide darkness and some sound mitigation; and is reasonably free from disturbance by passengers or flightcrew members.

(3) Class 3 rest facility means a seat in an aircraft cabin or flight deck that reclines at least 40 degrees and provides leg and foot support.

And if you departed after 5pm you could fly this crew for 13 hours, which should be enough to do a transcon.

Am I understanding that correctly?

Pineapple Guy

05-21-2014 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1647967)

Neither of those airplane's 1st class seats meet the Class 3 standard, so Delta would have to add a Business Elite type seat.

index

05-21-2014 03:23 AM

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Originally Posted by index (Post 1647764)

Are you the appointed by the company to make statements on their behalf? When you make statements like "the company feels..." it sure sounds that way.

You have a long history of "speaking for the company." In fact, you do this every time there is a pending contract change. It's hard to tell if you just feel special having "secrets" whispered in your ear or if you have another agenda in play. Just who keeps feeding you information? And have you ever questioned whether someone might be using you to help undermine the pilot group by feeding you deliberate false information?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1647770)

I asked this exact question of someone about as high up in the company as you can get at the MEC meeting in Boston. That was his answer.
You would also logically think that if someone wanted to feed me information it would be lots of wide bodies are coming if we do what the company wants. Sadly that was not the answer.

I take everything management says with a huge grain of salt, whether that information is said in public or private. After the SWA-Tranny merger I asked that same person you referred to whether we had any interest in purchasing their 717s and was told unequivocally no. There are numerous events in DAL's history where we were told something was not going to happen---then it did. If their lips are moving...

As I said earlier you have a long history on this board and others of making very confident assertions of either the company's position or ALPA's position on any given matter. It rarely comes off as opinion. More often you state things emphatically like you are the Oracle of Delphi.

When you posted that the company really didn't push that hard for CDOs what exactly did you hope to accomplish? Just providing "information"? And who fed you that information? If the company didn't push that hard, what does that say about our negotiating committee?

sailingfun

05-21-2014 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1647902)

I am arguing that 3 pilots is cheaper than 4. I am thinking of the Caribbean turns where a crew deadheads down and flies back. Now that trip will be done with 1 captain and 2 first officers instead of 2 captains and 2 first officers. I could handle it if it was done with 2 captains and 1 first officer. I am disturbed about losing that captain position.

Most of those went away with 117 back in January when the hours went to 9. They only made sense as already discussed in markets with very limited service. Layovers will always be cheaper unless the crew has to be left there more then a day.
In addition the company does not generally use the 17 757's with BE seats in tourist markets. I don't overall see this as much of a issue.

forgot to bid

05-21-2014 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1647968)

Neither of those airplane's 1st class seats meet the Class 3 standard, so Delta would have to add a Business Elite type seat.

Business Elite on a 75 goes to 150 degrees, all they need to get to is 40 though? Isn't economy comfort 50 degrees?

sailingfun

05-21-2014 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillbilly (Post 1647845)

I spoke at length with both a member of the CROT and a cargo rep with the company since bunks are near and dear to my heart! Generally there are very few times when every business seat is sold. There are always upgrades and non revs. The company costed out losing the 2 LD positions as far more money then the BE seat. The cargo guy hated the ER's with bunks. The other thing the cargo guy mentioned that I had not considered is you lose the ability to carry a lot of high yield cargo with the bunks in place due to dry ice restrictions.
There has been a cost change however not sure how much with FAR 117. With the bunks the crew gets a longer duty time. A aircraft with bunks might avoid a costly cancelation if delayed or had to divert with that longer duty time. I am sure it was a factor however not enough to get bunks in the 767.

sailingfun

05-21-2014 03:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1647921)

Actually, FAR 117 just imposed a "Cap"....only 100 hours in 28 days now. :eek:

There are many, many trips still in our open time now, that under the previous "120 hours in 30 days" rule, would have been swapped/White slipped an gone by now.

I've heard several senior 777 F/O's crying about it, and some LCA's as well, seems they just took a 20hr. per month pay cut. :eek: And those extra 20 hours were usually paid at G/S rates, i.e. they took a 40 hr. per month pay cut from the 'old rules'.

That cap is starting to bite the company. I think they may have underestimated their ability to surge this summer as a result. It was one of the better changes in 117 yet never discussed.

sailingfun

05-21-2014 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1647993)

Business Elite on a 75 goes to 150 degrees, all they need to get to is 40 though? Isn't economy comfort 50 degrees?

There are only 17 757's with BE seats. They usually don't fly tourist markets. EC is maybe 20 degrees. Regardless our contract requires a BE seat with a curtain and modified footrest if not a lie flat.

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