Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1653191)

My acronym data base is out of data. I have no clue what ESSHM is. Frankly this subject isn't all that interesting, so I'll bow out. Ciao.

Oh, and I think this is a little overdramatic
don't you? Not everybody wants to fly the 747. The 777 pays the same, mostly goes to the same or similar destinations... yada yada yada. But I guess it's probably just me. Castell doesn't have to worry about me coming in on top of him....

Excel Spreadsheet Super Hero Man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1652759)

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../4/2446418.jpg

According to RA, approx 2 weeks ago, the most efficient/profitable was the 75-3 and the 33-3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1653219)

Why should they pay a 747 captain more than an RJ captain? You think the RJs are gonna take the job of the 777? You said yourself that you would drive to MCO to fly the 717 rather than commute...but for that money thing... I just don't understand why QOL takes such a backseat. So if guys were making top tier wages based on their years of service WHO CARES what airplane they are flying? If it meets their desires for lifestyle, I say throttle up. If management wants to retire all the widebodies and buy all E-170s, good for them. They have to pay you and I more each and every year to fly them. I think the cost effectiveness and economy of scale is out the window at that point. The ONLY argument that I see having any legitimacy is that the seniority at the bottom of the list would be spread across all fleets. So what? Do you see any real indication of a furlough in the coming years? Your retirement argument. 1100 could retire and not be replaced. OK.. oil goes to $150/bbl. 747s go to the desert with no replacement. NOW you have a cascade downward throughout the entire list. How do you justify that?

T, over the years I've heard and agreed with both sides of the arguments, for and against LBP. I was just expressing the counter argument I've heard.

At 28+ years of seniority, and as a 777 Capt, I don't care which way it goes now, but as a new hire 727 Engineer on the B scale, I said we should start all new hires at the highest pay rate (TVM!:D) and then go backwards from there, i.e. less pay every year, until you're working for free the last 5 years:eek:.

That way, most guys would retire early rather than fly for free! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1653179)

Good work on showing the math in public Ron Rico, but don't forget about the 'real reason' the company would LOVE a longevity based pay system, and that is reduced manning, due to the reduced training you eluded to.

We are coming off 5 years of stagnation due to age 65 and merger synergy, so going forward, there will be a lot more pilots swapping seats and stuck in training for a month or more. How many pilots are -off line- going to school is hard to say, but let's use 10% because the math is easier.

IF we had LBP, there would be far fewer pilots playing musical chairs, chasing the big bucks into a widebody, so far fewer pilots required on the seniority list. The bottom 10% of every category could be lopped off, and thus the bottom 10%, or about 1100 pilots on the bottom, would go out the door, or the top 1100 retire and not be replaced.

Then there is the "Productivity" argument. Once you decouple aircraft pay rates from aircraft productivity, why should the company pay a 747 Captain any more than a 50 seat RJ Captain?

The musical chairs aspect was what I was talking that I felt should be included in the argument. Since there would be less training, you could spread the saving on top of the $215. That is selling productivity though just the same as raising the ALV.

Like somebody else said, seniority would still be king, QOL would just replace money. The 717 captain who is wants seniority based pay, may not hold his seat anymore since Timbo may bump him out. The 717 guy may end of flying the two pilot trip to LIM now on the 767.

One thing I have learned since being here, is when you change something there is always unintended consequences and you really need to investigate them as thoroughly as possible before you act.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRicco (Post 1653267)

One thing I have learned since being here, is when you change something there is always unintended consequences and you really need to investigate them as thoroughly as possible before you act.

Unintended Consequences; THAT is the problem with making a change in the way we get paid.

I think Lufthansa pays by seniority vs. equipment, and their most senior pilots fly shuttle type trips on the 737 out of Berlin, show up early, fly a couple out and backs, go home every night. Their junior guys have to fly their 747's (and now A380's) around the world, on 14 day trips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1653204)

I think all day 4 and beyond availabilities are viewed as the same for all 4 and under day trips. So if you're on for 6 days you're (your?) available for 4 days…3 days in a row. :cool:

In a domestic category, all 4-or-more days of availability pilots are grouped together and are equally good for all trips at least 4 days in length. So, even if the most junior 4-or-more day pilot has 12 days of availability, he will be the first to go out on a 4-day trip.

In an int'l category, all 5-or-more DOA pilots are similarly grouped together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1653272)

I think Lufthansa pays by seniority vs. equipment, and their most senior pilots fly shuttle type trips on the 737 out of Berlin, show up early, fly a couple out and backs, go home every night. Their junior guys have to fly their 747's (and now A380's) around the world, on 14 day trips.

Sounds pretty good to me.;)

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Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1653289)

Sounds pretty good to me.;)

Which one, the shuttle trips, or the 14 day trips?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 1653170)

RK,

You lost me here. Are you threatening another DAL Pilot for making a suggestion? As a matter of fact I agree with you on this issue but am not sure if you were joking (I dont see a :)) or if this was just a poor choice of words.

I am hoping you just left off the smiley thingy.

Scoop

Yeah,left off the smiley and winkey things. Plus you know, the whole concept of blanket party by forloughees is a joke concept. ;)
Sorry Frank and gloopy... Small phone, many beers, bad punchline delivery. :)

I did get a good laugh Frank casually threw down "here I am biatch come visit" -- wish I was in town I'd stop by with some beers.

It's just so hard to review typing for autocorrect and humor tone in this half inch of screen. My bad on the joke delivery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadkill (Post 1653311)

I'm not crazy about the idea either. It *could* be done right, but the opportunity to blow it on our part is massive. Its probably the biggest opportunity to play checkers with chess playing management that we could get into right now anyway. It still blows my mind when pilots disrupt their lives, bid for tough commutes and schedules they don't want, lose relative seniority and flat out punish themselves just for a few bucks an hour. I place a much higher value on QOL. But the churn they help create generates staffing, hiring and QOL for others.