Originally Posted by orvil (Post 1676274)

When Richard signs the quarterly statements he can go to jail for securities fraud if he misstates something. The same thing goes for disclosures to financial analysts. I don't believe there is any penalty for lying, misstating, exaggerating or misleading us or DALPA.

I have always given greater weight to his statements to Wall Street.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1676075)

Not bad, Airbus... not bad!:


http://www.flightstory.net/wp-conten...ut-700x487.jpg

http://www.flightstory.net/wp-conten...ne-700x487.jpg

http://www.flightstory.net/wp-conten...03-700x487.jpg

Originally Posted by UGBSM (Post 1676293)

And you think handing out free PS passes to every single employee and their whole family is going to HELP you non-rev? UGBSM! That's great for once a year, but the rest of the year it will do nothing but hurt your Nonrev chances even more.

What a great idea! If you are a ramper just hired yesterday!

When I was junior (<10 yrs) I had to pay $16 per Nonrev segment. Now that I finally have some seniority (>20 yrs), youngsters want yet another scheme to jump over me once again. No thanks junior.

BTW, the. OGT debacle should have ended years ago like it was supposed to. What a screw job to those who play by the rules.

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1676245)

Yet the company could show a huge debt load, and you wouldn't believe THAT...

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1676245)

Choose one. I don't care which, but choose a source if you are gonna play the all or nothing game.

Originally Posted by UGBSM (Post 1676293)

And you think handing out free PS passes to every single employee and their whole family is going to HELP you non-rev? UGBSM! That's great for once a year, but the rest of the year it will do nothing but hurt your Nonrev chances even more.

What a great idea! If you are a ramper just hired yesterday!

When I was junior (<10 yrs) I had to pay $16 per Nonrev segment. Now that I finally have some seniority (>20 yrs), youngsters want yet another scheme to jump over me once again. No thanks junior.

BTW, the. OGT debacle should have ended years ago like it was supposed to. What a screw job to those who play by the rules.

Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1676359)

The 4833 you referenced yield an annual compounded increase of 6.85% over the duration of the contract from our original C2012 amendable date to the future amendable date. At that rate DAL pilot pay will double in 10.5 years. Assuming inflation remains at current levels, would you be happy with double your current pay rate in 10.5 years?

Lets say we ink another 4833 for contract 2015. Lets further assume we ink the deal 6 mo.s early as we did last time. The math says that is another 6.85% compounded annual increase over 3 years. Rough calculation says M88A (largest category at DAL) pays out around $252. Add on 15% 401K contribution, we get $290. Doable? Absolutely! Is it enough?

Let's keep going.

Another 3 years, $307 for a pay rate and total comp rate of $353.

Isn't compounding math fun? Let's look at the other side of the coin. Can Delta generate an annual compounded profit increase of 6.85%? Sure. The question is for how long? Can we increase our comp at 6.85% annually? Sure, we have demonstrated that. For how long?

Clearly the answer to those questions is not forever. We know this intuitively. Enough is a question that depends on how one sees the world. A linear view reveals quite a different result than a cyclical view. Exponential growth requires cyclic adjustment. Linear growth is far more stable and allows time for productivity to keep pace.

Time is the key element. 4833 as one time deal over a 3 year period is not particularly exciting. 48334833 over 6 years gets the blood flowing a bit. 483348334833 over 9 years is quite an eye opener that gets one's pulse going real good.

Would you sign off on a such a 9 year contract, assuming inflation remains at current levels? I know, ridiculous, but it's a thought experiment. I would in a heartbeat. There is virtually 0 chance DAL will grow profitability at that rate for that period of time.

A more reasonable question, and still a thought experiment, would you sign off on 4833 commencing Jun 1 2015?

I think 4833 is highly doable and likely a lower bound. Interesting.

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1676367)

You're forgetting one of the "checks and balances." ALPA has a seat on the BOD. There are consequences for lying, misstating, exaggerating or misleading there.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1676425)

Question slowplay: Can the DALPA board member tell DALPA about being financially misled if he's signed a non-disclosure agreement?

Carl

Originally Posted by Starcheck102 (Post 1676432)

Every member of the MEC has signed an NDA. So have many of the six hundred Delta pilots who volunteer for ALPA work. This is why we allow for "closed session" portions of MEC meetings.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1676438)

Re-read mine and slowplay's posts.

Carl