Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1676678)

I don't really like your methods on forums, and I don't like the notion that the MEC might be using proxies to fight these little battles, as opposed to coalescing in private around one thing: fighting for the best contract possible. I don't like the leaks, and the rumors, because they are indicative of a dysfunctional group, and dysfunction, as fun as it is to insiders, makes us all poorer.

That being said, I have to agree with the point you're making relative to sharpesttool's trial balloon, which has all the merits and characteristics of a fart in church.

We need, and deserve, a very strong contract. Prior to bankruptcy, our share of the pie might have been too much for the long-term survival of the company. We don't have to wonder anymore, because that company was restructured, and was recreated into this powerhouse of a pie-making machine, and that machine is slinging pies everywhere, but not quite enough in our direction.

I don't give a hoot about a C2K that was reached with a dead airline (for all I know, C2K is way too little for this company), or hollow slogans like restoration, because I want what we deserve. What we deserve is a piece of the action that is commensurate with our critical role in keeping the economic engine going. We're short of that goal. We're not getting of the pie on an ongoing basis, and we've already built up a pie deficit.

That's what we need to be focused on. We need to figure out how much of the pie is rightfully ours, while keeping a reasonable balance with other stakeholders, and we need to survey the group to figure out how to split it. The only sort of financial data we need is: how much can the company afford to pay us, and meet normal obligations. Not the ever-changing margin goals (now it's fifteen %?), not the ever-changing debt-targets, not the gravy stock buy-backs. Enough to make a good margin, service the debt at a reasonable interval, and pay a small dividend. THAT is what this should be about.

As far as the side-show goes, I find the timing really bizarre, and frankly suspect. We shouldn't be into this sort of discussion until the surveys are out. Something reeks here.

Sink r8

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1676689)

Great post, Sink r8.... as usual! gzsg has a little birdie on the MEC that routinely whispers in his ear, so he can then take it viral in public. Makes me sick the lack of integrity of certain individuals.

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1676694)

Makes me laugh that you think I need someone on the MEC to feed me. The MEC is as in the dark as the were last time when they got lower rates than they authorized as well as the reduced profit sharing they never discussed.

The hand is played early and offen by those carrying the ball for management.

C2015 if handled again by the insiders will be pay increases funded by the loss or reduction in profit sharing and pay banding using management's math. Pay banding will cost hundreds of jobs, eliminate seniority list instructors and cause major stagnation. Reductions in each and every category.

For those who are actually good people, understand that most on the MEC are clueless as to what the insiders have planned. They will be completely blindsided like Brian Craig was in C2012.

The concessions beyond the 76 seat RJs caught me by surprise last time. It never crossed my mind that we would make concessions when management needed relief from us. This time, if I can help it, we will at least know going in what we are up against. If we play dead again we have no one to blame but ourselves.

That CDO jam down didn't work and hopefully neither will touching profit sharing or granting pay banding.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1676689)

gzsg has a little birdie on the MEC that routinely whispers in his ear, so he can then take it viral in public. Makes me sick the lack of integrity of certain individuals.

Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1676653)

BTW, there is a real good reason why wages in the aggregate do not keep up with inflation. Credit.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1676701)

I'm sorry, I don't follow: how is it you know what's going on inside the MEC, without someone feeding you selected pieces? Magic? Intuition?

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1676278)

Hey, anyone know how the big FBI investigation is going?

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1676707)

Sorry for not being more clear. The reps who vote and fly the line have no clue. These deals are put together by those on full time flight pay loss, part time or are just connected.

In The C2012 TA the MEC was bypassed. The pay was below their direction and reducing profit sharing was not authorized.

Trading profit sharing comes from guys like Chuck. Guys who are not elected. Guys who think they know better. The pilots are too stupid to understand his use of big words.

Let's let the process work.

These insiders are extremely powerful and they have been in place a long time. We have an uphill battle.

Originally Posted by Starcheck102 (Post 1676450)

The Pilot Director can report whatever information he wants to anyone else who is bound by the NDA...

Originally Posted by SharpestTool (Post 1676672)

Ok, no more for you. Either ignorant or lacking in maturity. Probably both.

Good evening.