Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1676712)

OK, so you speak with frustrated reps, who tell you they fight an uphill battle against the bureaucrats, or people in the admin, and that's how you develop a picture of what's going on, and make uncanny predictions about what's happening on the MEC next. Is that about right?

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1676508)

Wait a minute! Just a drive by for me Carl, but aren't you contradicting yourself with this post? I think you just admitted defeat!:). Haven't you been saying all along that contract 2012 was cost neutral to the pilots?

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1676508)

Aren't you agreeing right here that is not the case? That pilot costs did go up?

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1676508)

The amount may be debatable.

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1676508)

I don't know how to multi quote but your response above is to a post by Toga Lk where he said "I think everyone is missing the point, pilot costs definitely went up."

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1676607)

Lots of good info on fleet plans on Delta net. Couple of highlights or lowlights depending on your point of view. Wide bodies in the current RFP will start arriving in 2017. 747's will be replaced first then the early 767ER's. Hints that they don't want a 380 seat replacement for the 747 so will be smaller. 50 aircraft buy initially. Overall smaller airframes for the Pacific and bigger in the Atlantic seems to govern what airframes they will be buying.
757 will be downsized to about 75 airframes. Those will be retained for quite some time. A321 is not a true transcon aircraft and can't replace the 757 in those markets. 757 and 737-900 will do the transcons. 10 to 13 million each to overhaul a 757. They love the airframe but that amount better spent elsewhere. 75 total airframes will cover the routes other types can't.
Love the MD88 and ours sons will be flying them to their retirements! Super cheap and fuel not a huge issue on shorter flights. Buying used ones for parts.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1676678)

I don't really like your methods on forums, and I don't like the notion that the MEC might be using proxies to fight these little battles, as opposed to coalescing in private around one thing: fighting for the best contract possible. I don't like the leaks, and the rumors, because they are indicative of a dysfunctional group, and dysfunction, as fun as it is to insiders, makes us all poorer.

That being said, I have to agree with the point you're making relative to sharpesttool's trial balloon, which has all the merits and characteristics of a fart in church.

We need, and deserve, a very strong contract. Prior to bankruptcy, our share of the pie might have been too much for the long-term survival of the company. We don't have to wonder anymore, because that company was restructured, and was recreated into this powerhouse of a pie-making machine, and that machine is slinging pies everywhere, but not quite enough in our direction.

I don't give a hoot about a C2K that was reached with a dead airline (for all I know, C2K is way too little for this company), or hollow slogans like restoration, because I want what we deserve. What we deserve is a piece of the action that is commensurate with our critical role in keeping the economic engine going. We're short of that goal. We're not getting of the pie on an ongoing basis, and we've already built up a pie deficit.

That's what we need to be focused on. We need to figure out how much of the pie is rightfully ours, while keeping a reasonable balance with other stakeholders, and we need to survey the group to figure out how to split it. The only sort of financial data we need is: how much can the company afford to pay us, and meet normal obligations. Not the ever-changing margin goals (now it's fifteen %?), not the ever-changing debt-targets, not the gravy stock buy-backs. Enough to make a good margin, service the debt at a reasonable interval, and pay a small dividend. THAT is what this should be about.

As far as the side-show goes, I find the timing really bizarre, and frankly suspect. We shouldn't be into this sort of discussion until the surveys are out. Something reeks here.

Sink r8

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1676678)

I don't really like your methods on forums, and I don't like the notion that the MEC might be using proxies to fight these little battles, as opposed to coalescing in private around one thing: fighting for the best contract possible. I don't like the leaks, and the rumors, because they are indicative of a dysfunctional group, and dysfunction, as fun as it is to insiders, makes us all poorer.

Originally Posted by Bobman80 (Post 1676732)

Green Slip Question. If you are on a 4 day green as a regular pilot and the 4th day gets cancelled for whatever reason, are you guaranteed the original trip credit. All this assuming you already signed for the trip etc. thanks!

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1676678)

That being said, I have to agree with the point you're making relative to sharpesttool's trial balloon, which has all the merits and characteristics of a fart in church.

We need, and deserve, a very strong contract. Prior to bankruptcy, our share of the pie might have been too much for the long-term survival of the company. We don't have to wonder anymore, because that company was restructured, and was recreated into this powerhouse of a pie-making machine, and that machine is slinging pies everywhere, but not quite enough in our direction.

I don't give a hoot about a C2K that was reached with a dead airline (for all I know, C2K is way too little for this company), or hollow slogans like restoration, because I want what we deserve. What we deserve is a piece of the action that is commensurate with our critical role in keeping the economic engine going. We're short of that goal. We're not getting of the pie on an ongoing basis, and we've already built up a pie deficit.

That's what we need to be focused on. We need to figure out how much of the pie is rightfully ours, while keeping a reasonable balance with other stakeholders, and we need to survey the group to figure out how to split it. The only sort of financial data we need is: how much can the company afford to pay us, and meet normal obligations. Not the ever-changing margin goals (now it's fifteen %?), not the ever-changing debt-targets, not the gravy stock buy-backs. Enough to make a good margin, service the debt at a reasonable interval, and pay a small dividend. THAT is what this should be about.

As far as the side-show goes, I find the timing really bizarre, and frankly suspect. We shouldn't be into this sort of discussion until the surveys are out. Something reeks here.

Sink r8

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1676689)

Great post, Sink r8.... as usual! gzsg has a little birdie on the MEC that routinely whispers in his ear, so he can then take it viral in public. Makes me sick the lack of integrity of certain individuals.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore (Post 1676742)

Assuming that you're a regular line holder, yes. You are guaranteed the full value of the rotation. The portion you fly will be double pay, no credit, and the cancelled portion will be single pay and credit.