OK... I still got out of it what I got out of it the first time I read it. Satch asked what incentive management would have to negotiate. You responded with an idea that we should change the way we do our jobs to wit "covert wink wink job action". Of course I am guessing that you will say that the wink wink is overridden by the statement that "I am not advocating a...". Maybe had you left out the wink wink I wouldn't have said anything. However, you did, and I can read it no other way. Add to that the "slowly jumping thru the hoops, yada yada yada..."

It does not. It plans for the eventuality of a negotiations failure well in advance so that all available options are viable.

I agree that's true, but that leverage is quite limited. Despite what some here think, the company would operate fine with disgruntled pilots doing whatever disgruntled pilots choose to do. Service would get a little worse and the operating numbers would suffer a bit. SD would fire a few people to set an example and things would slowly go back to the way they were. Wall Street would see that Delta has pilot labor peace after all.

That might be your opinion, but I don't know of any quantifiable evidence to back up that opinion. I'd love to believe it's true, but facts don't back that up.

Drop the value of Delta's operation to zero? Really? Just because the union tells its members to prepare their families for a possible pay interruption by saving? I think that statement is way over the top.

It's not a gratuitous swipe at all Sink. It's a reality check. If you're not financially prepared for a pay interruption by having a savings cache, the strike option will fail. I'm certain Donatelli knows that. Nobody would start a strike that they know will fail. Therefore, if you don't prepare the families years in advance, you won't be able to strike ... No matter what. You'll get beaten. That's not a swipe against Delta pilots, that's the reality and logistics of a strike.

Carl

It's your own nose you are cutting off. I couldn't care less.

True.

The new interiors are high tech and fancy but more "fragile".
They don't withstand the usual passenger abuse as well as the old ones.

Modern designs and materials are not always superior apparently.

A lot of trim pieces, little parts and fasteners that were never a problem are now breaking.

Let me get this straight - The fact that I said I am not advocating any kind of "wink-wink" tactics makes you think that is what I was advocating? My response remain the same - If management chooses to not negotiate in good faith we can stop going above and beyond, no more no less - why is this so hard to grasp? I specifically said no organized effort would be needed and this is what I believe.

I will even give you and example - You pull into a gate. No gate agent. You make 1 call and and then just sit there for however long it takes. Note - and this is important - I am not advocating this now. This is what could give us leverage if management tried to park us. Clear enough now.


You can read into it whatever you want. I am telling you - you can choose not to listen. My whole response was based on his questions - What can we do if management refuses to negotiate.

My whole point (obviously missed by you) was that that any type of organized action would not be necessary. Hell if you are going to discount my actual post and read into what you want I will just sit back and let you speak for both of us.

You simply disregard what I actually typed and give it your own spin - despite the fact that I am telling you otherwise.

So when I posted on here numerous times that I voted for C-12 did that make me a kool-aide drinker? Seems to conflict with your web based analysis of me as a miserable person.

You seem to go about looking to get into keyboard sparring contests with your fellow DAL Pilots, giving them absolutely no credit in any regard, and then resort to demeaning them - me included in your original response.

Since you know what I am thinking I will let you present my side of all conversations with you from now on - have at it. Notice I said conversation because even you you may not realize it, every back and forth on this board does not have to be an argument.

Have a good day.

Scoop

I'm not accusing you of anything satchip, I'm telling you what you're actually doing. You've just done it again in the paragraph above. Using the APA's bad miscalculation as the template for negotiations going forward is perpetuating a false choice for all the reasons I've already explained. I wish you wouldn't do it.

I know that bombast and tone is the purview of the reader, not the writer. That is not my intent.

I did so in a response to Alfaromeo. Don't want to clog up the thread with a duplicate.

Their remedy would be the labeling of management as negotiating in bad faith. That's a rules violation and would likely lead to the NMB declaring an impasse. That's what happens with any side that refuses to budge.

They would absolutely label us the same way.

Not accusing you of anything Larry, uh Moe, uh Curly.

I keed, I keed! :D

Carl

Dude.

You did not just in any way compare real football to soccer.

Go to your room and think about what you just did.

Well, not really if you know how to use them. What I've seen "breaking" is the lighting, IFE and PA systems because Flight Attendants either have had no training, or have blown off whatever training they were provided with. The most common corrective entry in the log is "turned system on." :(

Turning on a cabin light is a two push process and can be a four step process depending on how the thing is configured front to back.

Then we have the towel dispensers and garbage receptacles which have difficult to find remote latches and $10 an hour employees trying to service without sufficient time, or while boarding is taking place. I am slightly more understanding of their issues since they aren't making $50,000 + a year to do two drink services on a 6 hour flight.

There's only one superior classic design......they shoulda' gone with the 2x3

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tABTyNqA_7.../md88cabin.jpg

Your post:

http://i.imgur.com/2x7GKWb.gif