If you want to be intellectually honest you'll also mention everything that was given up by the pilot group before bankruptcy and during bankruptcy, as well as the work rules that were sacrificed and will never be regained. If you want to present a honest and complete picture that is. Or just mention a rule that was good that is now gone for each positive one you mention. Just listing one-sided points is disingenuous for the argument you're making.

You don't know what those numbers are sailingfud. You keep using the numbers labeled "pilot wages and salaries" and you call them "pilot costs." Two very different things, yet you continue to purposely conflate the two.

The truth is that we've done damn little ourselves. Our pay rates that you focus on so intently were mostly fully funded by concessions and leading the industry in allowing our jobs to be outsourced.

Pure nonsense and hyperbole. Just another example of you desperately trying to convince your fellow pilots that they've already lost the battle so it's best to just accept our fates. I'd love to know how you're being remunerated for this "work" of yours.

Carl

Ha ha. We are talking about MSNBC & on the other end of the spectrum, FOX News. There are very few trained newspeople at either network. Each one is part of the machine for their respective "side."

I'm pretty sure Krystal Ball ran for Congress as a Democrat a while back. She's an accountant had some pretty conservative positions on some of the issues.

Both networks employ political pundits disguised as news anchors. It's the American way of life nowadays. Don't take it personal.

I might not be a trained newsperson, but I am trained not to jump the gun and, if appropriate, before jumping to a conclusion, to always ask the next question.

Sure, sometimes when you do that, it looks like you are a ditz. But, most of the time, it will turn out you were right to do so. ;)

Absolutely 100% correct.

But this new ALPA has a new vision. It's a vision based on considering management to be valued partners and negotiate based on what's best for the partnership. It is only through this new vision where the company's success will undoubtedly trickle down to pilot group in a sustained manner instead of the boom-bust cycle. That's our new reality.

Carl

That correct. Which makes me wonder why you and the other surrender early folks so often make the argument that we can't get this or that because then management would have to give it to the other non-union employees? Seems a tad inconsistent. :rolleyes:

Carl

And that would be fine with me, but only IF...

We got paid like management; in addition to our base pay, we too got stock options, performance bonuses (at more than $25!) a fully funded retirement plan...oh, and a zero cost, zero deductible medical plan, for life, oh, and PS passes...for life.

I just hope Ed is -finally- able to sleep at night. Why is that tool still working here?:rolleyes:

For the NW guys, he's the only DL South mgt douche to keep his job, after testifying to the BK judge that he couldn't sleep at night, worrying that Delta wouldn't survive unless he ass-raped us.

The best way to do that is to understand the enormous power these self-interested lifers have in a top-down organization like DALPA. When we understand that, we can let our reps know that we're watching not only the way they vote, but the actions of these lifers and will strongly support rep action to remove the lifers ANYTIME they begin to misbehave. It's the one and only way we have to force bottom-up rule in an organization that is so stubbornly top-down.

Most of them did lose their positions after the terrible breach of trust that happened with C2012 and the utter incompetence shown by the 117 negotiations. More and more, our reps are behaving as activists. A very good thing.

Carl

Fair enough, the diff will only be around $11.50 by excluding it as I clearly posted.

The +PS was separately shown after the straight calculation, just to show a more complete "big picture view" of what is working for a pilot in Section 3. I find it less than accurate to not factor in the primary ways of accruing income in the PWA, especially when it is a direct add-on in percentage points to the pay hours received for a year of employment.

It would have been better "forum decorum" to post that separately I suppose. The intent was to dispel the "$40/hr more" fallacy. I hope that part was demonstrated clearly.

Actually, I've had numerous reps tell me that's exactly how you referred to them when they didn't instantly accept your opinions as fact. One said you have a unique way of making people feel inconsequential and invisible. I've seen you behave this exact same way here.

Yet another classic straw man. Nobody has called it "non-democratic" except you. Nobody. Now you accuse Fly4hire of insinuating pilots to be lazy, stupid and weak for a premise that only you are espousing. Everyone sees this Alfa. You're not fooling anyone.

Carl

The DPA seems to be having a tough time getting new cards. Time for alfa and slow to help them get some more like they did so adeptly a couple years ago!