Wow. I hope you have someone good managing your money, or you better hope for 'fly till you die'. And I never said you didn't have a lot at stake. The deadzoners have a heluva lot more than you buddy boy. You will be able to recover. Timbo, not so much. Sorry if that doesn't fit your paradigm of the azzhole senior guys, but many of them gave a LOT more than you ever will.

I absolutely agree with this entire post. Except the part about sending money to Billary. I'd rather send it to PD.

Straw man. (You're getting good at that!)

I did not knock senior guys.

I called you for minimizing the stake junior guys have over their careers here, and for belittling their willingness to share (and advocate for) their opinions.

Are you going to tell us you're the only one "entitled" to a valid opinion? :rolleyes:

So in addition to your incapability to do math, now you cannot read. I'll help you out here. I never said anything about expressing opinions. Express all you want. Just don't act like you have personally sacrificed anything from C2K, because you didn't. You knew the pay and bennies when you got hired. If it was so onerous and insulting, why did you come here? When I came here there was a B scale. I knew it when I came to work here, so complaining about it was disingenuous. Wanting to get rid of it however was a fair complaint. But it cost me nothing when I came to work here. It was what it was. And we got rid of it for YOU.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Given the company's profitability, you're damn right the "pay and bennies" are "onerous and insulting." And that won't change until we get rid of the complacent handholding you and the DALPA regulars advocate.

The landscape has changed. You are anchored to an outdated paradigm. In this environment, a "bankruptcy plus" contract is simply unfathomable.

You are too risk averse to realize how much we stand to gain if we have the grapes to fight for it.

I'm confused, T. You write something like the above and it makes it sound like you'd be all for restoration of our pay. Yet, in effect, you constantly argue against it. You say you want more, but are apparently unwilling to advocate that our representation set an objective that would be highly controversial with our management. Restoring our pay is going to take some very aggressive, significant improvement. That's just a mathematical fact. And I can guarantee you our management will fight extremely hard against anything of the sort. They feel like they slayed that dragon a long time ago... and given DALPA's actions and tone over the past decade have every reason to believe it's put to bed for good.

How do you justify at least implying that you think something like restoration is the right objective yet you argue against the "reasonableness" of doing what it takes to achieve it? Maybe I've been misreading you all this time. Can you clear it up for me?

See? You are incapable of discussion without turning it into an ALPA bash. But that aside, do you not understand that management holds most of the cards wrt our contract? Again, we are back to square one for the nine thousandth time with this. How are you gong to get them to fork over the coin without protracted negotiations prior to being released by the NMB? You are willing to wait, I get that. And I am too for awhile. But it will cost us. And what is really interesting is that those that cannot afford to wait... like the deadzoners... you would happily throw under the bus, all the while turning the whole argument on its' ear, complaining about how YOU have been wronged. YOU have time to recover. Many senior to me, do not. A pay increase is a pay increase, and small bites are better than nothing. You absolutely advocate 'nothing', because deep down you don't give a damn about your fellow pilots unless they are of your vintage. I got news for you too. Many that are MY vintage, and Carl's (although he will never admit it) don't care about recovering RJ flying, especially if it has to be paid for. Funny that that opinion is considered onerous and vile, but yours of throwing more senior pilots under the bus, is not. Must be nice to enjoy the double standard that you do.

Nope. I want more money. I have been clear about that. I want health care. I don't give a damn about RJs. And I don't give a damn about feel good mission statements and goal statements. It's too early for that. It's meaningless except to placate you and Jerry. Get the troops fired up now, and they'll burn out. Guaranteed.

"Restoration" will not happen in one fell swoop. It's ridiculous to believe that it will. You want 34% or something like that. It would be great, but it is not remotely reasonable (standing by for the expectations management crap). It is reality. We are not going to get a contract that will deliver that kind of pay increase before somebody else closes the gap. It is not only bad business (for Delta) it is stupid. And then there's TVM. PD wants to wait. He ignores the magic of compounding. He will throw you and me under the bus. (and himself also, but he can't do math, so he doesn't realize it) You are a smart guy when it comes to investing, and it totally surprises me that you seem willing to discount it also, but apparently the victory of punching management is more valuable to you. Reasonableness is what will get us our money. How to define that is the crux of the problem. But a 34% pay increase on day is not "reasonable" by any rational definition, I do not care how much the company is making. And you know that I am right on that.

Fire away.

That means don't you go getting a purchase order in before market 7/23 on $1.15* a share ... oh market's closed, drat!

At least we will have something to talk about tomorrow and more whining about how we aren't paid enough. (and hell, with my damned coverage award ... I'm not paid enough for this crap)

*1.15 a share is above the consensus of $1.03, the whisper of $1.06 and the extra nine cents was pulled from my neigher regions.

Bar, I think that if there's any sense of entitlement it's found in charting out career earnings. Seems to me that's pretty foolish in this industry. I guess those of us who were put on the street for years have a different perspective. The only entitlement I hope for is employment.