Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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- - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1688464)

Carl;

You know better. It had nothing to do with "didn't want."

This is troubling since I know you know better. DALPA was asked by its members why they omitted our JV competitors in the contract comparisons leading up to C2012. ALPA had that pay data. ALPA said they did not want to publish it. They said their reason was that they were asked not to...while not producing any evidence of such communication. I found Air France's pay data in one minute and posted it here. It had everything to do with "didn't want." ALPA had the data, but didn't want to put it in the contract comparisons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1688464)

I am sure your consulting business does business in Europe and you have some working knowledge of the EU laws, and because of this, you know that their collective agreements are not public record like ours. I am sure you also know what the France tax rate is on the AF pilots and what their social benefits are in retirement.

ALPA had the data. So did I. I published it here, ALPA wouldn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1688464)

All of this said, you also know that DALPA would have loved to get that information out, but for the AF pilots to disclose any of it, it had to be agreed upon that we would not detail it in a contract history or comparison.

Read above and you'll this statement of yours is completely false. And since you're a current rep, that troubles me. I would have hoped as a current rep you would be fighting hard for an open and completely transparent contract comparison. Instead, you're here now setting us up for why we will yet again NOT see our JV competitors' contract details in our contract comparisons...even though ALPA has the data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1688464)

The simple fact is when looking at total W-2, v take home pay, v negotiated benefits, v their socialized benefits in retirement, and then comparing theirs to ours, there are area we are better in and areas they are better in. I would not classify us as equals but the differences are noted.

We don't know if that's a fact acl. It's clearly you're opinion, but please don't confuse your personal opinions with fact.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1688482)

That position is populism. The PWA wrt to the JV does not have noncompliance yet.

Look acl, you simply have to correct this. I know there are some daisies here who hate it when I come after you the way I would like to right now, so I'll hold back.

Our JV is out of balance RIGHT NOW. Has been since March. We're now in the correction period, yet you and the rest of DALPA has been dead silent. Those are actual facts, and I KNOW you know it. So why did you say what you said above?

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1688661)

Aircraft seat and position always track pay. We heard from management how senior Delta Express would go for Caltains. Never happened. Guys say they will bid a seat to be a captain but when the time comes they chase the money and schedule.

The reason both management, AND the union reject RJ's, is because they would be the largest pilot group at mainline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1688492)

Bar,

I don't disagree with your points but where do we have influence in that list? Maybe indirectly on some but your points M/N are where the rubber meets the road so to speak. Tell me some out of the box thinking, how else are we supposed to get anything out of a contract violation if not to monetize it? If we negotiate stronger language what's to keep the company from violating that and then we are back at the same point...

Oh, and if this hasn't been mentioned before, I heard that RA decided to delay the RFP decision/order until December because of Airbus' decision to make the A330neo.

Denny

Another way to cure a contract violation is to end that contract provision. That is, end the JV. Monetization is fine for most contract violations, but not ones that involve the loss of jobs. When we agree to accept money damages for scope violations, we tacitly agree that scope (and violations thereof) are monetary in nature. If we don't stop that, we'll lose our souls as union members.

Jobs aren't for sale. If scope provisions are violated, that scope provision needs to end as a result of successful grievance. Monetary penalties for everything else.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hillbilly (Post 1688683)

Not sure about the 320, but the 717 went senior initially because of Crew Resources letting everyone know before the first bid that you would be getting the summer off with no planes to fly. By the time all of the 717s are here, I expect the seniority of that seat to fall right in line.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The senior guys I know bid the 717 to not only get the summer off but much of the next 3 years with the volume of training required to add 88 airframes in 36 months. The plan has worked very well!
As far as the other airframes the pay differences are small and growing categories are always junior to established fleets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1688509)

T Square,

The change since Mr. Woolman's day is that businesses can both grow and die simultaneously. Comair had over 5 billion in total Delta investment. It died while Delta continued on with little notice.

My point is, when Daddy starts abusing the children, Momma better watch her back.

It is ridiculous for any of us to assume that a transfer of flying to a cheaper entity within Delta's core business had nothing to do with the fact they are less expensive.

Comair, Mesa/Freedom, even ACA were corporate whack jobs in favor of newer, cheaper, children. Why would we ever assume we are safe?

Absolutely correct analogy. A damn uncomfortable one to read, but accurate.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1688566)

There is a ridiculous double standard. If I'm ever President of ALPA, I'm going to kill the RLA, or die tryin.

Believe it or not, I'd vote for you. Maybe you could write something similar to what CAPA wrote today:

..."As CAPA moves into the future, we continue to be engaged in both the domestic and international areanas. We will continue to work with Congress, DOT, FAA, DHS, TSA, NTSB, ICAO, CAA and other international industry stakeholders. We are actively pursuing protections for our pilots regarding international competition, RLA and NMB issues, and pension protections."

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1688621)

Sorry PD. You still can't prove me wrong. What's sad, is that you think you have simply because you pointed out a typo.

3bil,
I haven't proven that the contract doesn't cost $3 billion. I guess common sense doesn't count for much in your head.

Apparently all the proof you need is to type something here, stomp your foot, and claim other folks are wrong because they can't disprove your ridiculous claims.

You tried to float a completely asinine number, hoping it would sneak through, to be used as a future talking point. When called out, you walk it back by claiming a "typo."

Unfortunately, that has been your modus operandi. Wave your arms and hysterically insist you are correct, even when you're completely out to lunch. Hey, I guess it works for you, so keep up the great job cheerleading, johnso. More pom poms for everyone! :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1688495)

It hasn't changed from Mr Woolman's days. The world around us certainly has, and the methods for implementing that core business has changed. It's business. Grow or die. The case study is SWA. Let's see how successful that company is going forward with the same business model run in the same old way. We can have this discussion in a few years....

SWA buisness model is currenty changing, you don't see that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1688628)

No. Probably PD posting under a different name. The post matches his style, or lack thereof more appropriately.

nope.. wrong hombre, ive paid my dues and am sick and tired of the give give give of alpo since restoration was touted last time (3b6 and scope anyone) but the unfortunate reality is we are stuck with them since the dip****** pilots association is completely and utterly incompetent, they will hurt my wallet if they keep up their garbage, we have to hitch one more time to the alpo train but a failure like c12 will really be the end and im not optimistic, maybe donarelli can fix it but he might be just another hot air alpo politician

n/s lec/mec they are all corrupt and padding their own bedding and it sickens me that we have no choice

skeptically wearing the lanyard and pin until the inevitable failure,

pj