Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-24-2014 | 10:50 AM
Can't abide NAI
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Not quite sure what this will do for the independent regionals. There is nothing to compel the mainlines to give more money, in fact it allows them to modify the ASA's to the negative. Regional pilots need to stop all payment of union dues, not engage in illegal work action.
Delta pilots are in the same boat to some degree, but most do not realize it yet. Delta's JV's and codeshares do a much larger percentage of Delta's flying than Continental ever did of Eastern's.
Unionism is the only way this gets fixed.
It is management's decision to outsource work and management's decisions to set up structures designed to reset employees longevity.
ALPA answers to us, but those who directed them to make this fight are no longer with us. The more pragmatic have survived.
As fun as it is to discuss this theoretical (and I think nothing comes from their effort) plan, clearly the best choice of action is to leverage what we can, when we can, working with management when we can find common ground. If this flying is to be recovered without disruption, it will be incremental. That sort of work requires a highly functional union.
07-24-2014 | 10:51 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: window seat
That's quite a stretch. I doubt airlines are withholding hiring regional pilots, especially from other regionals, in a mutual pact to preserve supply. Even if they are trying to do that, it isn't working.
07-24-2014 | 10:56 AM
Can't abide NAI
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
It brings up an interesting question maybe Mesabah can answer ... if the Compass and Endeavor pilots are held back, when do they get their seniority date? Does Delta give them a Delta number before class? If they are held back, do they lose seniority, or do they have concurrent seniority?
07-24-2014 | 10:57 AM
:-)
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This is why management is willing to waste billions on defunct regionals like Comair, because they are saving tens of billions on mainline pilot's pay.
07-24-2014 | 11:03 AM
:-)
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It brings up an interesting question maybe Mesabah can answer ... if the Compass and Endeavor pilots are held back, when do they get their seniority date? Does Delta give them a Delta number before class? If they are held back, do they lose seniority, or do they have concurrent seniority?
Further, to the extent that they lose seniority ... then the Silicon Valley case might be of some relevance.
07-24-2014 | 11:10 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: window seat
A couple of thoughts. Airlines do hold back pilots (and are doing it as we write this with Endeavor and Compass) to prevent service disruptions at the express carrier. At ASA the call used to be made requesting that Delta stop hiring Line Check Airman if Delta expected ASA to be able to fly Delta's schedule.
It brings up an interesting question maybe Mesabah can answer ... if the Compass and Endeavor pilots are held back, when do they get their seniority date? Does Delta give them a Delta number before class? If they are held back, do they lose seniority, or do they have concurrent seniority?
It brings up an interesting question maybe Mesabah can answer ... if the Compass and Endeavor pilots are held back, when do they get their seniority date? Does Delta give them a Delta number before class? If they are held back, do they lose seniority, or do they have concurrent seniority?
As for your ASA example, to any extent that's true, the other airlines would have to also participate for it to be true collusion. If anything, they would want to hire away those pilots, so it would take one heck of an industry wide effort that would pale in comparison to capacity dicipline. I don't think high time regional check airmen are having much of a problem getting hired right now, or in the future.
07-24-2014 | 11:11 AM
Can't abide NAI
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Quick travelnet question ...
My father was going to come with me on a trip for one of Delta's 34 hour productivity sits. If I were pass riding I could bring him up to S3. But, when flying is the system sophisticated enough to know he is with a Primary Pass Rider?
My father was going to come with me on a trip for one of Delta's 34 hour productivity sits. If I were pass riding I could bring him up to S3. But, when flying is the system sophisticated enough to know he is with a Primary Pass Rider?
07-24-2014 | 11:15 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Light Chop
From today:
Jamie Baker - JPMorgan
Excellent, I appreciate that. And for Richard and forgive me, this is a bit of replay from last quarter. If you consider the next pilot contract, it still isn’t clear to me what management’s ask is going to be unlike last time, you don't need additional scope relief, I don't think. You don't need a 717 rate and so forth. So my concern is that Delta may have the upper hand this time around at the negotiation table which could put pressure on the longer term ex-fuel CASM targets that you were speaking about earlier, any thoughts on this?
Richard Anderson
We have an incredible track record working with our colleagues at ALPA. And if you just look at the track record over the last 10 years, it’s been just phenomenal. And we expect it to continue to be that way. So if you look at what we’ve been doing in the business we’ve really taken the labor risk totally off the table at Delta. And our employees are fully engaged in they are delivering a great product. And that's one of the key de-risking events that we've undertaken at Delta that’s unique to the company. And we’re not -- it’s one of the most valuable things we have and that relationship is very important to us. And we will continue unabated on the track that we’ve been on for a decade.
Jamie Baker - JPMorgan
As a follow-up to that and the hypothetically, if your primary competitors were able to reach the same level of operational integrity along the lines of what you were discussing earlier but without as [generous] profit sharing mechanism, would you ever revisit that structure?
Richard Anderson
We’re not going to get into, Jamie, the details of how those conversations go. Those are internal conversations. I would only note that the last time around with our pilots, Ed, what we…
Ed Bastian
We did restructure the profit sharing arrangement two years ago. And I think as we look forward to that, we’ve got a number of things that we can work with to help fund some of the heightened expectations but we’re not, as Richard said, we’re not going to share those details on the call.
Jamie Baker - JPMorgan
Got it. I appreciate it. Thank you very much for both answers. Gentlemen, I appreciate it. Take care.
Excellent, I appreciate that. And for Richard and forgive me, this is a bit of replay from last quarter. If you consider the next pilot contract, it still isn’t clear to me what management’s ask is going to be unlike last time, you don't need additional scope relief, I don't think. You don't need a 717 rate and so forth. So my concern is that Delta may have the upper hand this time around at the negotiation table which could put pressure on the longer term ex-fuel CASM targets that you were speaking about earlier, any thoughts on this?
Richard Anderson
We have an incredible track record working with our colleagues at ALPA. And if you just look at the track record over the last 10 years, it’s been just phenomenal. And we expect it to continue to be that way. So if you look at what we’ve been doing in the business we’ve really taken the labor risk totally off the table at Delta. And our employees are fully engaged in they are delivering a great product. And that's one of the key de-risking events that we've undertaken at Delta that’s unique to the company. And we’re not -- it’s one of the most valuable things we have and that relationship is very important to us. And we will continue unabated on the track that we’ve been on for a decade.
Jamie Baker - JPMorgan
As a follow-up to that and the hypothetically, if your primary competitors were able to reach the same level of operational integrity along the lines of what you were discussing earlier but without as [generous] profit sharing mechanism, would you ever revisit that structure?
Richard Anderson
We’re not going to get into, Jamie, the details of how those conversations go. Those are internal conversations. I would only note that the last time around with our pilots, Ed, what we…
Ed Bastian
We did restructure the profit sharing arrangement two years ago. And I think as we look forward to that, we’ve got a number of things that we can work with to help fund some of the heightened expectations but we’re not, as Richard said, we’re not going to share those details on the call.
Jamie Baker - JPMorgan
Got it. I appreciate it. Thank you very much for both answers. Gentlemen, I appreciate it. Take care.
07-24-2014 | 11:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: window seat
You're missing the point. How much money would it take a regional pilot to leave for American Airlines? How much money would it take you to leave Delta for American Airlines? Subtract the difference, and that is the savings for AA.
This is why management is willing to waste billions on defunct regionals like Comair, because they are saving tens of billions on mainline pilot's pay.
This is why management is willing to waste billions on defunct regionals like Comair, because they are saving tens of billions on mainline pilot's pay.
Even if regionals all went away tomorrow, it would still be contractually illegal for AA to hire a DL pilot at off contract pay, QOL and (essentially) seniority. And honestly, this career would be far worse off in a wild west scenario like that, even in the limited salad days we're in. After the next natural disaster/man made disaster/economic crash, and there will be those, do you really want to be on an at will contract that's coming to an end in a down cycle? No one is going to help facilitate that.
07-24-2014 | 11:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
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From: window seat
Parents get S-2's don't they?
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