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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1714229)
Maybe it's the company's opener? You guys need to be more productive.
It's their JOB to negotiate to make us MORE productive. It's when our union people say that we're not productive enough I get worried. |
Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1713906)
No one hates 2007 hires. Only the argument that we need to go back to the system we all worked under at the time they were hired. And I don't think anyone is trying to design a system where we "get back" at 2007 guys, or you.
I think we should design a reserve system that screws 2007 hires. Write your reps. Answer the calls to action. 2007 hires have it too easy and more senior pilots are having to fly before the 2007 hire has hit ALV+15. That is wrong! Sent from my parents basement using tapatalk. |
Originally Posted by ImTumbleweed
(Post 1714204)
Sailing,
Please site your source for the information you posted. Where did you get those numbers. And do those numbers include guys who aren't actively flying (Mil leave, disability, ect). Links to the source would be best, thanks. Warning - Public Math and crude estimates follow: :D The Contract 2015, Delta Pilots Contract history that we received lists the following for Block Hours flown: DAL in 2000 - 2,269,404 Block hours flown. * NW in 2000 - 1,487,463 Block hours flown. ** Using 10,000 Pilots at DAL you get about 227 hours per Pilot. Using 7000 Pilots at NW you get about 212 hours per Pilot. You can multiply these numbers by 2 and get 454 and 424 average block time respectively in 2000. DAL combined in 2012 flew 2,642,225 Block hours. Using 11,500 Pilots you get about 230 block hours per Pilot. Multiplying by 2 you get 460 average block time per Pilot. Note - I am estimating the number of total pilots for each of these snapshots. 10,000 was pretty much dead on for DAL in 2000, and 11,500 is close to what we had in 2012. 7000 for NW in 2000 was a total guess. :confused: If anyone has more accurate numbers they can recalculate more accurate numbers. You can tweak these numbers any way you like - I am not taking into account any MIL leaves, Sick, LOA, augmented crews etc - that is beyond my knowledge level. * From page 6. ** From page 8 These numbers differ from the block hours listed on page 3 (although they are very close) which considering it is all the same document does not really inspire confidence. :eek: I think the big takeaway here is how much the combined DAL has shrunk since the merger - total bummer. Although, to be fair most of that "shrinkage" had already occurred by 2007 when the combined block hour total was approximately 3,000,000. Scoop |
Originally Posted by ImTumbleweed
(Post 1714249)
Of course that will be the company's opener.
It's their JOB to negotiate to make us MORE productive. It's when our union people try to sell us on the companies opener I get worried. |
Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1713906)
No one hates 2007 hires. Only the argument that we need to go back to the system we all worked under at the time they were hired. And I don't think anyone is trying to design a system where we "get back" at 2007 guys, or you.
I think we're all trying to develop a system that's fair, and ordering flying by seniority, provided no one has to shoulder the entire load, is fair. I think most people are coming into this discussion from a perspective of trying to make things better for all pilots, including junior captains (I really mean it). I get the impression you're coming at this from the perspective that everyone needs to fly based on RAW scores, by restricting the size of RAW buckets, so that senior guys don't get to pass on anything. My apologies if I'm mis-representing your viewpoint, but that's the theme I'm getting out of your arguments: it's not fair for a senior guy to "escape" a trip, because back when you started, they couldn't.
Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1713841)
Which made a new hire just as much of a prince or a peasant as anyone else, and so it was that ftb and other newhires got to think of themselves as equally entitled to flying as someone who HAD been furloughed, HAD lost the game of LOW/HIGH yellows when it was their turn, but now couldn't use their seniority at all to compete for flying anymore. We got shafted, but their perspective on this matter was based on the then-existing system of 2007.
So, to the newhires, past dues that went unrewarded went completely unnoticed. When we finally designed and implemented something better, they 2007 guys cry bitter tears over the fact that there is LITTLE seniority bias to the Reserve system (emphasis on "little"), and they can't bear the thought of losing the artificial equality they had come to live under, never mind that it was an accident of a history they didn't share in. They sure don't mind the fact that a junior guy flies a trip they don't want, but they can't bear the idea of a senior guy sitting a little longer in a different raw bucket. It messes up their brains, this slightly unequal screw-job, even though it is entirely appropriate, and STILL fails to properly pay us back. Under the bucket system the guy one number junior to the other could fly the entire month before the guy one number senior flies at all. Under the bucket system with ALV+15, there is a good chance no limit will be hit as you once mentioned that under the old seniority system the junior guy would fill up and go home the rest of the month. I think both of these guys paid their dues and I don't think that is a good system for one of them. I think a fairer system is an even split, junior guy flies first. Now I know seniority only is "how we used to do it" but "how we used to do it" is a closed shop way of doing things and not necessarily best. What I want is what is better for more pilots rather than fewer.
Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1713841)
ftb's problem isn't that he got screwed when he was junior (he didn't), is that he has too little respect for those of us that got screwed when we were junior AND when we were more senior.
Sent looking into Scambo's basement from an unlocked window using tapatalk. |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1714255)
I hate 2007 hires. I think I was born that way. I often encourage other people to hate them too.
I think we should design a reserve system that screws 2007 hires. Write your reps. Answer the calls to action. 2007 hires have it too easy and more senior pilots are having to fly before the 2007 hire has hit ALV+15. That is wrong! Sent from my parents basement using tapatalk. Sent from Scambo's basement using tapatalk. |
Someone had earlier asked how the RAW score is derived, from the PWA:
―Reserve assignment weighting (RAW) means a value assigned to a reserve pilot that is based on his accumulated credit in a bid period, his CROC days in a bid period, and his number of short call credits in a bid period. A reserve pilot’s RAW is used as part of the process of sequencing him for assignment to open time. Such value will be calculated using the following formula, rounded to the nearest integer: Reserve assignment weighting =[(A / C) x 75] + [(B / D) x 100] + [E x 5), where: A = the reserve pilot’s credit hours accumulated in the bid period plus prorated credit hours associated with his period of unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training (other than qualification or distributed training), if any. The number of prorated hours associated with his period of unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training (other than qualification or distributed training) will be determined by multiplying the number of days of his unpaid absence and/or vacation and/or training (other than qualification or distributed training) by the reserve guarantee and then dividing that product by 30 or 31 (days of the bid period). B = the reserve pilot’s CROC days plus prorated CROC days associated with his period of absence other than sick leave, if any (e.g., vacation, training, MLOA, PLOA). The number of prorated CROC days associated with his period of absence other than sick leave will be determined by multiplying the number of days of his absence by 16, 17, or 18 (on-call days per bid period) and then dividing that product by 30 or 31 (days of the bid period). C = the reserve guarantee. D = number of on-call days in a full month of reserve. E = the number of short call periods for which the pilot has been credited in the bid period. http://i.imgur.com/GhYyfhp.jpg Sent from Scambo's couch watching ESPN on his 70" LED TV using tapatalk. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1714221)
Buddy of mine bought the black. He begged me out of a 64GB card I had and never seems to do much with his files due to the hassle of working with such large output (could just be him, I dunno).
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Originally Posted by Roadkill
(Post 1713979)
LOL... classic case of a guy absolutely not reading a single word of a post, and then replying to his pre-conceived notions. T, you might as well have posted, "I know you are, but what am I?"
T... the whole point of alllll this ALV+15 back and forth was that the number of guys who actually fly >ALV, up towards 99, is MEANINGLESS, and is NOT the benefit the company wanted. It's the ABILITY to push guys that high rarely if needed that removes a constraint and allows the company to accept lower winter-level manning. You're right. I am totally confused now. You mean that it is not about the infinitely small potential to have to fly to 99 hours... but rather the fact that gives the company the flexibility to actually make pilots work for a paycheck in the winter???? Here I sit in the socialist utopia that is San Francisco, and all the street people are the ones who get it... I guess.... |
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