Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute (Post 1730693)

Not hard at all. Maybe it was too much for you to handle all at once.:p

Let's break it down into smaller segments

Correction, "some pilots" sent a rather unambiguous opinion with regards to CDO's. I think it's a stretch to say that "the pilot group" has.

True statement.

You might consider that there might be some self selection involved in the input the reps received during the TA

That's true. Unless there were over 3000 pilots writing the reps, it's self selection bias. You shouldn't ignore the input, but you can't claim that the "pilot group" has spoken either.

How many pilots have participated in the ALPA survey to date? LEC's vote resolutions with 20 people in the room that then go to the MEC and get voted on in drafting Comittees with 10 to be approved by 21 status Reps later (usually without much debate). LEC election rates are typically in the 15-25% range. Are Reps even legitimately elected Representatives with such poor turnout? ;) That's a slippery slope arguement towards we are firm believers in democracy as long as we get the desired result, otherwise it was not "representative" and we are exercising leadership ......

and that there might have been input before and after the TA that "some pilots" like and want CDO's.

I believe that to be a true statement. There are many pilots who like those types of rotations. Enough do that....

There was even a resolution from C20 asking for them.

Now you are simply being disingenuous. This red-herring has been brought up previously as a scapegoat for the NC bringing back something other than directed. That resolution was voted down at the MEC prior to the Reps even giving direction on CDO's. I can post the email from Chairman MD in response to a C20 member question where he states the resolution had nothing to do with the CDO direction if you like.

Why do you keep looking for scapegoats for your own bad desicions? I understand there was a whole lot of trust in your leaders stuff from certain Reps until the back lash started and then those same Reps did an about face. I can post the voting record on that if you are interested.

The C20 reps brought a resolution to the MEC, which I'm sure was vetted at their local council meeting, asking for the reinstatement of illegals. They even argued for them at the time.

See above. Care to comment on how different the product delivered in the TA was from the direction given?

According to the DPA survey 39% of Delta pilots want CDO's.

Apparently a not insignificant number of pilots have expressed a desire for CDO's on the DPA survey. Of course that is also self selection.

And the DPA survey does not as I recall breakdown the operational parameters and limits to allow for would you favor under this scenario or not. are you really going to say with a straight face the questions are in the survey due to a pre-direction failed resolution at the MEC level and the DPA survey?

So the question is; what's wrong with asking the group as a whole using a scientifically valid survey?

Care to answer?

There is nothing wrong with questions that are not leading nor asked repeatedly in different form until someone gets an answer they are looking for. I think the CDO question fails on both those counts.

Again I don't know how you can even debate this with a straight face reference scientific surveys when the SLC and ATL LEC's essentially destroyed the unbiased sample set of the survey by posting LEC updates essentially telling pilots how to answer certain questions.

It's obvious to me that management desired PWA concessions are working their way into landscape of our pre-opener lexicon in order to tenderize the pilot group for their inclusion or consideration. CDO's, pay-banding, reduced profit sharing, (satellite basing to follow) - ALL management desires.

I expect them to ask - it's THIER job. I expect ALPA to not present reasonable positions on why a concession might be worthy of consideration to trade for another benefit elsewhere. Some thing's are simply no brainers.

BTW, just flew on a 717 for the first time. Nice but essentially a perfumed DC9-30 with a nicer cockpit. We had 150 plus of those nasty NWA DC9's pre-merger. It struck me that DAL parked them in order to allow DALPA the contractual win of additional outsourcing in increased 76 seaters in order to buy 88 said DC9's back :eek: